Killed a neon fruit

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
3700 altitude does take off several tenths off of your e.t. however to lose a full second, given all the other conditions are similar (like air temperature, humidity percentage,barometric pressure, and track surface temperature) if I remember correctly you have to be at about 4600 ft above sea level. Interesting side note on altitude. In Florida their sea level is a bit lower then the sea level say in California. The Pacific ocean is higher (not sure by how much) than the Atlantic. That's one reason the Homestead motorsports complex (Nascar) sets alot of records for speed. The air there is a bit denser. Do you race at Bradenton?

nah, i goto bithlo,bradenton is much better from what i hear.

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
no they aren't 4 pages of fighting. there are 4 pages of heated debate with clean posts.

I know that. That is why in my post i said I ASSUMED they were 4 pages of fighting. That is why I apologised for my post. And i must say that i am impresed that they are not 4 pages of fighting. That would never happen at some of the other forums out there.

Well Mike neon guy after watching the NHRA Sport Compact last night I see that Scott Mohler is doing very well he won the all motor. Though he is the ONLY NEON who consistantly beats the other guys. So about you saying neons own at every level its bull shit. I saw a yellow neon get its ass handed to him. All the other classes where won by non neons. I would ahve to say that they dont own everything. Okay you ahve a winner in some other circuit but Im talking the about the big boys. I just think its funny that you keep going on about neons. I think you waste to much time on here when you could be elsewhere. Are you trying to convert us into people who love neons??? I mean come on. Thats like someone saying how Geo Metros own and are really fast. Its just dumb. Who cares what facts you bring up. Your just here to make people mad.

Originally posted by Honda530
I think you waste to much time on here when you could be elsewhere. Are you trying to convert us into people who love neons??? I mean come on. Thats like someone saying how Geo Metros own and are really fast. Its just dumb. Who cares what facts you bring up. Your just here to make people mad.

Couldn't have said it better.

[ChrisCantSkate]

i dunno about you guys, but i like the non-honda owners who come here and post constructivly, i've learned ALOT from them, not just the neons, but the DSM's a while back then the v8's that trickle in and out, and now the neons.if you go on supraforums.com or another website like that, theres alot of non-supra owners there. i think it keeps the board interesting. even on preludeonline, another board im a member of, theres alot of 240 owners and the admins are buying porsches now. other types of cars involved give that extra edge in posting.

[Grip72]

Ya...why can't we all just get along...just one big happy family... .

..i know..i'll go punch myself in the head now, you dn't have to tell ME twice..

Every comment i've made in this thread has been based off of what I see locally in denver. There are maybe 4 or 5 hondas out here that are what I would consider descently built up. Trenz(del sol), Phat 'n' Low(civic hatch) are both awsome cars, the paragon car wasn't too bad last time I actually saw it at the strip(paragon is on the way out from what i've seen).

I've never said hondas all suck, will say that most of the owners of those hondas, and especially nissans, tend to be dicks if you drive anything other than a honda or nissan. Trenz is really bad in that way, despite neons owning quite a few of the trenz cars, neons are still a waste of time in their eyes(2 neons pushin low 13's at 5830ft). I have no idea how much has been dumped into either of those cars, except to say they are both running HRC Stage2 kits.

I have as much respect for cars that are actually built up, not just running a rice can and altezzas as i do for any neon.

not that anyone asked me but im gonna say something anyway. i like cars in general. i nicely built up neon is just as good ans a nicely built up civic. moslty what i see from neaon around here are falling apart pieces of crap. some are "ricers" and some are not. also more peoplel rice hondas cause their friends think its "cool". for the people that are really into building up cars and making them fast we should all get along and learn from each other and just have fun. thats what cars are all about

Originally posted by cashizslick
Listen, that composite junk you are showing me pics of is only used because it is cheep make, and light. There is no way that is gonna be as durable or safe as a metal intake manifold.

AND by the way, I have raced many Neons, and they have all lost badly.

That's fine, you may have beaten many neons. I'm willing to bet alot of them that you have beaten were DOHC automatics, which I'll admit are dogs when bone stock, however there are some fast ones out there even with an automatic. Explain to me this though. How is having a part that doesn't move, and that is not exposed to extreme temperatures, where does durability and interestingly enough safety enter into the equation? I'm not flaming, but serisously explain your logic. Another thing, what kind of times are you pulling in the 1/4? And don't say street racing. IMO street racing is nothing. There's no way to prove anything. The only proof in my eyes is a time slip (well maybe a dash mounted video camera but who's taking notes?)

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
I've got a 98 Plymouth Expresso DOHC 5speed, that has about $600 worth of modifications. Best e.t. at Bradenton motorsports park was a 14.99 @93mph on street tires. Neons come bone stock with more horsepower, more torque than a crummy Civic any day of the week, with exception of the Si which has 160hp and 111 ft.lbs torque.

well i will take this one....

1.) WTF is an expresso next to something you drink.
2.) Ok your time slip? Nothing to brag about. You ran a 15 AFTER you dumped 600$ into.... Am i the only one thats sees the problem there?
3.) A STOCK neon with the 2 litre has 132 hp @ 6 grand and 129 lb-ft @ 5000.
4.)The 1.8 ltr has 115 hp @ 5750 and 112 lb-ft @ 4900. that is nothing impresseive.
5.) stock civic has the 1.8 ltr pushin 125 hp @4500 and 119 lb-ft @ 5000. I think the civic won by my calculations.
6.) i noticed you conveinently left any type-r cars...maybe that one was a coincedence....
7.) My brothers STOCK civic spanked a 96 Neon numerous times and everytime it was the same...
I just proved almost everything you typed wrong.....

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by infil
Hrmm, remind me what one of the fastest all motor fwd's is? OH yeah, A NEON.

Last time i checked it was the all-motor RX-7 that ran constant 7....but i could be wrong. That guy that showed me was a neon owner and his exact words were " You will never see an all motor neon do 7's." I agree and shook my head..

fwd = Foward drive, RX7 is Rear drive

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by HoLun
fwd = Foward drive, RX7 is Rear drive

well ill be damned....i retract my statement then i have made a mistake....Sorry.

we all make mistake sometimes

Originally posted by VR4_Craver
well i will take this one....

1.) WTF is an expresso next to something you drink.
2.) Ok your time slip? Nothing to brag about. You ran a 15 AFTER you dumped 600$ into.... Am i the only one thats sees the problem there?
3.) A STOCK neon with the 2 litre has 132 hp @ 6 grand and 129 lb-ft @ 5000.
4.)The 1.8 ltr has 115 hp @ 5750 and 112 lb-ft @ 4900. that is nothing impresseive.
5.) stock civic has the 1.8 ltr pushin 125 hp @4500 and 119 lb-ft @ 5000. I think the civic won by my calculations.
6.) i noticed you conveinently left any type-r cars...maybe that one was a coincedence....
7.) My brothers STOCK civic spanked a 96 Neon numerous times and everytime it was the same...
I just proved almost everything you typed wrong.....

Hmm, you're quoting the SOHC neon specs

95 Neon SOHC
132 hp @ 6000
129 lb-ft @ 5000.

95 Civic Si
SOHC VTEC
125 bhp @ 6600
106 lb-ft @ 5200

*Pulls out calculator*
Neon generates 7 more hp at 600 rpm less
and 23 more ft.lbs. torqe at 200 less rpm.


The 95 Neon DOHC has
150hp @ 6000 rpm
133 ft.lbs. torque @ 5600 rpm

95 Civic Si-R (JDM)
DOHC VTEC
160 bhp @ 7600
111 lb-ft @ 7000

*pulls out calculator again*
it takes 1,000 more rpms to gain 35 more hp out of the SiR engine. I find it rather interesting that if you divide the hp rating by the rpm you get 0.021 from the SiR then when you take the end result and multiply it by 5000 rpm which is the neon DOHC hp rating it comes out to 126 right back to the original specs of the SOHC engine. This leads me to beleive that the only way that they got that hp # is by spinning the motor faster. So, you say that the neon loses in hp/tq numbers. How? When the neon engine doesnt have to spin as fast and still generates more torque. Lets stay focused. Now lets say on this same logic tract, that the neon engine (DOHC) ran to 7600 rpm from the factory (it actually has a rev limit of 7350) under these same ideals the neon would generate 190hp at 7600 rpm and 166 ft/lbs torque @ 7000 Interesting huh?

[Addict]

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
95 Civic Si-R (JDM)
DOHC VTEC
160 bhp @ 7600
111 lb-ft @ 7000

That's not the JDM version. That's the Si-R which is Canada's version of the US Si.
2002 Civic Type-R
200 hp @ 7400 rpm
145 lb-ft @5900 rpm

Addict, look a little closer, you posted the 2002 SiR specs. I was posting the 1995 m/y.

[Addict]

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
Addict, look a little closer, you posted the 2002 SiR specs. I was posting the 1995 m/y.

SiR is different from Type-R.

Originally posted by Mike98Neon

*pulls out calculator again*
it takes 1,000 more rpms to gain 35 more hp out of the SiR engine. I find it rather interesting that if you divide the hp rating by the rpm you get 0.021 from the SiR then when you take the end result and multiply it by 5000 rpm which is the neon DOHC hp rating it comes out to 126 right back to the original specs of the SOHC engine. This leads me to beleive that the only way that they got that hp # is by spinning the motor faster. So, you say that the neon loses in hp/tq numbers. How? When the neon engine doesnt have to spin as fast and still generates more torque. Lets stay focused. Now lets say on this same logic tract, that the neon engine (DOHC) ran to 7600 rpm from the factory (it actually has a rev limit of 7350) under these same ideals the neon would generate 190hp at 7600 rpm and 166 ft/lbs torque @ 7000 Interesting huh? [/b]

Not really. Your path here isn't relevant - the Neon engine loses its torque long before 7600 rpm, whereas the Honda motor is designed to keep pushing to higher rpm.

I agree that torquier engines are fun for city driving and useful for towing boats (I don't tow boats with my civic), but acceleration and lap times come from power output. The methodology behind all small engines (although the civic engine moreso than the neon engine) is to keep the engine smooth and able to rev high while still producing enough torque to peak the power curve later.

You're correct that "if the neon engine (DOHC) [could run] under these same ideals" it would produce more power. In other words, if dodge built the engine such that it could keep producing power at a honda-like rpm it would spank the honda engine. Duh, right? If I could build an 8L dump truck engine (max hp/torque around 1500 rpm?) rev up to 8k rpm with a flat torque curve, I'd spank all of you. But it can't.

I think you really have to look at the entire power curve to see what an engine does. The neon make power earlier but fall off and a typical honda engine peak (at more or less hp and likely less torque, depending which engine) at a higher rpm, with the torque curve staying higher longer.

I think I'm following your argument above; I just don't think it's particularly helpful, realistic or holds any water.

okay okay mah bad. I meant to be comparing the SiR specs DOHC to the DOHC 420a motor specs 1995 m/y

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
okay okay mah bad. I meant to be comparing the SiR specs DOHC to the DOHC 420a motor specs 1995 m/y

well, the 95 4 door GRS's had 170 or 180hp, thats still the 4 door family sedan catagory

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
That's fine, you may have beaten many neons. I'm willing to bet alot of them that you have beaten were DOHC automatics, which I'll admit are dogs when bone stock, however there are some fast ones out there even with an automatic. Explain to me this though. How is having a part that doesn't move, and that is not exposed to extreme temperatures, where does durability and interestingly enough safety enter into the equation? I'm not flaming, but serisously explain your logic. Another thing, what kind of times are you pulling in the 1/4? And don't say street racing. IMO street racing is nothing. There's no way to prove anything. The only proof in my eyes is a time slip (well maybe a dash mounted video camera but who's taking notes?)

I do not waste my money or time taking my car to a track. It is slow and i realize that, but it is still MUCH better than any neon i have raced.

I would assume that under hood temperatures are extreme temperatures that can melt cheap plastic.

I have raced 2 5-spd neons on an abandoned industrial street, from a dead stop and have beaten both badly.

[ChrisCantSkate]

http://www.rtky.com/93_honda_prelude.htm
wow... check that prelude out

[Addict]

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
http://www.rtky.com/93_honda_prelude.htm
wow... check that prelude out

Originally posted by cashizslick
I do not waste my money or time taking my car to a track. It is slow and i realize that, but it is still MUCH better than any neon i have raced.

I would assume that under hood temperatures are extreme temperatures that can melt cheap plastic.

I have raced 2 5-spd neons on an abandoned industrial street, from a dead stop and have beaten both badly.

Ahh, I see, getting your car impounded, a sleu of tickets and an insurance hike is MUCH cheaper than going to the track. And I also bet that the time spent in court is also cheaper than going to a dragstrip. For the umpteenth time, it's not plastic, it's a composite. Like carbon fibre is a composite. I'd rather have a composite intake manifold than a carbon fibre hood. Assuming things gets you noticed

[AzCivic]

obviously the composite isnt good if they(chrysler) put an aluminum one on the higher end Neons, right?

Composites are broadly known as reinforced plastics. Specifically, composites are a reinforcing fiber in a polymer matrix.

read about it here http://www.cfa-hq.org/composites.shtml

Originally posted by AzCivic
obviously the composite isnt good if they(chrysler) put an aluminum one on the higher end Neons, right?

The top of the line Neon SE has a composite manifold. The performance model (ACR-R/T) has an aluminum one to boost the performance and give tuners something they can enlarge and increase flow to the combustion chamber.

need i remind all of you that your talking about how great chrysler's are?

This must be one long joke thread because anybody who knows ANYTHING about cars knows that chrysler makes some of the worst cars on the market and I'm not saying imports rock chrysler's butt. The other domests are even better, I would take a ford over a chrysler anyday.

Took a 99 plymoth van camping and the dam parking break got jamed up when we used it on a hill. Then my friend owned a 93' concord, ha that thing was full of troubles from day one. 2 tranny rebuilds, link kit replaced and a number of other problems. If you guys were arguing about any other manufacture I might have kept my mouth shut but its chrysler, they make cars designed to be rebuild from the ground up after 60k.

Now can't we all just get along?

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
Ahh, I see, getting your car impounded, a sleu of tickets and an insurance hike is MUCH cheaper than going to the track. And I also bet that the time spent in court is also cheaper than going to a dragstrip. For the umpteenth time, it's not plastic, it's a composite. Like carbon fibre is a composite. I'd rather have a composite intake manifold than a carbon fibre hood. Assuming things gets you noticed

Dont fool yourself, chrysler has not given you any carbon fiber in your car. I have worked with a number of "composites" if thats what you want to call them and everythign but carbon fiber and fiber glass are closer to plastics then they are fibers.

now lets try not to bash the guy for racing on a quiet road, aren't we here talking about cars? It looks to me that your all compairing dick sizes!

Originally posted by mt.biker
need i remind all of you that your talking about how great chrysler's are?

This must be one long joke thread because anybody who knows ANYTHING about cars knows that chrysler makes some of the worst cars on the market and I'm saying imports rock chrysler's butt. The other domests are even better, I would take a ford over a chrysler anyday.

Took a 99 plymoth van camping and the dam parking break got jamed up when we used it on a hill. Then my friend owned a 93' concord, ha that thing was full of troubles from day one. 2 tranny rebuilds, link kit replaced and a number of other problems. If you guys were arguing about any other manufacture I might have kept my mouth shut but its chrysler, they make cars designed to be rebuild from the ground up after 60k.

Now can't we all just get along?

This coming from (me) a former die-hard Ford fan. I spent 2 years working for a rental car company. We had just about every make model of car out there (all current model years) and the ONLY car manufacturer to hold up to rental abuse (and do I mean ABUSE) were the Chrysler products. Now, is this to say that Chrysler has always had a high quality product? No. They, like any other manufacturer has had and most likely will have issues. However in the last 10 years they've come a loooong way and the quality has made leaps and bounds in the right direction.

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
This coming from (me) a former die-hard Ford fan. I spent 2 years working for a rental car company. We had just about every make model of car out there (all current model years) and the ONLY car manufacturer to hold up to rental abuse (and do I mean ABUSE) were the Chrysler products. Now, is this to say that Chrysler has always had a high quality product? No. They, like any other manufacturer has had and most likely will have issues. However in the last 10 years they've come a loooong way and the quality has made leaps and bounds in the right direction.

um not really, their trannies have been getting lower and lower rates as the years go by

Originally posted by mt.biker
Dont fool yourself, chrysler has not given you any carbon fiber in your car. I have worked with a number of "composites" if thats what you want to call them and everythign but carbon fiber and fiber glass are closer to plastics then they are fibers.

now lets try not to bash the guy for racing on a quiet road, aren't we here talking about cars? It looks to me that your all compairing dick sizes!

Well considering that I work for a large Chrysler dealer, I know what the manifolds are made of. I'm not bashing the other dude for racing on a quiet road. I'm saying that he's a dork for using the excuse "I'm not wasting my money by taking it to the track" that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. And another thing I never said that the manifold was carbon fiber. I just was comparing metal vs. CF as far as strength is concerned. Oh and don't say carbon fiber is as strong as metal.
Kevlar mixed with Carbon fibre maybe, but not Carbon fibre alone.

Originally posted by mt.biker
um not really, their trannies have been getting lower and lower rates as the years go by

And this came from the cracker jack box you opened for breakfast this morning? Lower rates how? Where are you getting your information? I'd like to know. If you say Consumer Reports you're not as "in the know" as you'd like to think you are. GM owns a good chunk of Motor Trend and Consumer Reports, so anything negative they have to say about any automaker is a crock. Period. You know that 9 second neon that Len Ayala is racing with? It has a STOCK Neon automatic 3 speed transmission with an aftermarket high stall torque converter. Next?

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
I'm not bashing the other dude for racing on a quiet road. I'm saying that he's a dork for using the excuse "I'm not wasting my money by taking it to the track" that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Listen, There are NO tracks within 2 hours of where i live. I will not get tickets because i rarely "race" my car. I am not going to spend alot of money going to a track when its 2 hours away and i have a car that will probaly run a low 16.

By the way, i think this is a perfectly valid excuse for not going to the track. Unlike most Neon drivers it seems, i realize my car is nothing special.

I also think it's much more fun to race through an abandoned industrial strip late at night than it is to pay money to race at a track.

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
And this came from the cracker jack box you opened for breakfast this morning? Lower rates how? Where are you getting your information? I'd like to know.

I'd like to know the same for you. Just because you say that you work for a chrysler dealership doesn't mean anything. For all we know, you could be the kid who washes the car windows and gets spray the cars with tire wet.

NEON GUY why are still going on about neons. Your not going to convince any of us to join the dark side. There is no way you are going to win this arguement no matter what information you give people. We are all racers anyway. You know guys at least hes not some ricer neon guy whos has no clue about performance.
My parents had a dodge Caravan for a long time and they thing lasted forever and they drove it everywhere takinng me to soccer tournements all over teh south and we hauled a camper with it too.

Originally posted by Mike98Neon
And this came from the cracker jack box you opened for breakfast this morning? Lower rates how? Where are you getting your information? I'd like to know. If you say Consumer Reports you're not as "in the know" as you'd like to think you are. GM owns a good chunk of Motor Trend and Consumer Reports, so anything negative they have to say about any automaker is a crock. Period. You know that 9 second neon that Len Ayala is racing with? It has a STOCK Neon automatic 3 speed transmission with an aftermarket high stall torque converter. Next?

----EDIT----------

lol

[ChrisCantSkate]

biker... hate to tell ya, honda trannys latly have sucked big time. its hondas biggest problem next to CV joints.