Now That You Could be Labeled an Enemy Combatant

[ChrisCantSkate]

i read over most of it, im 99% sure it excludes us citizens. the only way you could include one is if they are labeled an enemy combatant. when it defines the authority that it gives it clearly states alien or enemy combatant(legal or illegal). in most legal document you cannot assume something because its not there, expecially when definitions are given and defined. now im not saying they couldnt rope a citizen in on this, but they muyst prove they are an enemy combatant otherwise they get a trial and any lawyer worth his salt will be able to prove your a citizen.

also this line confused me...

Since the bill was passed through the US congess and signed by the president of the US I think it pretty much goes without saying that it applies to US citizens and, as such, no special wording is needed to define that.

are you saying just because it went through congress and the president that it applys to us citizens? i hope thats not the basis for your argument because we do have this thing called foriegn policy which basically is how we deal with foiegn (not citizens) countries and foriegners. special wording is needed to define everything, every time. thats how the legal system works. once again.. im very confused to the meaning behind what you said about no need for special definition to define that..... left field

[GT40FIED]

Chris...how does what you just posted contradict anything I said? You said that the bill doesn't include US citizens unless they are deemed enemy combatants by the government. Since the government can, under secrecy, undergo it's own analysis of who and who isn't an enemy combatant, how does this NOT pertain to US citizens? And who gets to define "enemy combatant"? If it's Bush and his butt buddies, then anyone who has oppossed him for any reason at anytime anywhere is a prime target. Let's face it...this administration isn't exactly tolerant about dissent. Then again, they've always got the "blame it all on the guy before me" argument to fall on. Well...if they all weren't a bunch of rampant cocksuckers that might work.

Again...I'm confused. Yes, I am saying that because it went through congress and was signed by the president it does become a federal law that all US citizens must abide by. That is, after all, how laws are made. Failure to do so would almost certainly result in prison time...even if no one knows where you are. The idea of foreign policy is exactly what I was trying to explain to Rob. Special wording exists for special circumstances and foreign policy is one of those circumstances.

How is it so hard for you people to believe that almost every politician at any given time will fuck you in the ass without lube just for a little bit more power? This is true 10 fold of this administration and the fact of the matter is that you're allowing them to get away with it. Even if the bill didn't apply to US citizens (which it does), it's just wrong. When the question of "are we torturing people?" came up, the appropriate response should've been "how do we stop it and save face with the rest of the world?". Not "how do we make it legal?". The fact that this discussion is even taking place is a disgrace to this country. While every republican masturbates to the idea of this country being based in judeo-christian values, they seem to ignore the fact that tortue is among the most NON-judeo-christian things you can do. But hey...they support id because Bush goes to their church. Fucking wankers.

[AzCivic]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Again...I'm confused.

ain't that the f'ing truth. By your logic, since illegals can't vote then citizens can't vote because laws were passed by the US gov't thereby making everyone subject to them even though it states that such laws pertain to illegals (probably referred to as ALIENS!).

and now write another essay about why you hate republicans as if it pertains to the actual discussion of who is subject to the military commissions act.

ALSO NOTE it says ALIEN enemy combatants, not just ANY enemy combatant. Key word being ALIEN. You can obviously be an enemy of the nation and be a citizen but you can't be an ALIEN enemy combatant AND a US citizen.

What torture are you talking about? Deprieved sleep? Forcing them to listen to Michael jackson? Do you think these people are getting limbs slowly cut off or something?

[GT40FIED]

By my logic? You didn't follow my logic. In fact, you've never been able to follow my logic. You take what I say and run 10 steps ahead of me in the wrong direction. If you had correctly followed my logic, you would have concluded that just because something is inclusive of one thing does not necessarily means it's exclusive of something else. I really don't know if I can dumb it down any more than that.

Did I say I hate republicans? I searched my post for the phrase "I hate repulicans" and damnit if I couldn't find anything of the sort. Maybe that's because I don't hate republicans...well...not anymore than democrats, anyway. But let's face it, republicans are the ones who generally like to play the moral superiority card and the religion card. And, while this bill had some pretty strong support for dipshit democrats, the ones pushing hardest were the republicans. I seriously doubt that Jesus would've tortured anyone who opposed him. In point of fact, most people that claim to do things for biblical or religious reasons do them in stark opposition to what their religion teaches.

And Rob...please don't tell me you're dumb enough to think that our "interrogation techniques" (i.e. torture) are simply limited to sleep depravation and/or annoying music (although if we're playing Michael Jackson, I could get down to some Thriller). The bill opens up possibilities to anything but mutilation, rape, and murder. There's a pretty broad spectrum of discomfort in there like beatings and stress positions. Not to mention the fact that, like I've said before, torture is a notoriously bad way to gather good intelligence.