bush wants pakistan now

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by ChrisCantSkate

understanding of course, but truth of the matter is the american gov't will persue after bin laden no matter what any other country says... because we can. now if they DO actualy put forth a honest effot to find him and we still go in anyways against their wishes then i'll have a problem with that, not if they half ass it and dont really try, jump through a few hoops and tell us to stay out. thats the difference. should we have struck without asking? probobly not, but at least now they know we're serious about persuing him in their country and they better do something to keep us out.

as for a nuke threat from pakistan.. they will be a glass parking lot faster than they can say launch. its not M.A.D. when they cant destroy us and we can destroy them. we win that battle.

Ok, deal me in.

American people have a problem. Whenever the question of a fight is raised, their response is usually along the lines of "we have more". There are times when the question should be "do we have the right?" or "is it absolutely necessary?". We've had 5 years to go nuts looking for bin Laden. You think it's just convenient timing that we're rattling our sabres in a run up to elections? The Republicans didn't deliver on a promise and now they're trying to look tough and like they're making an effort just before they're likely to lose control of congress. I know politics is riddled with bullshit, but that seems low even to me.

Last I checked Pakistan is a sovereign nation. One of the few we hadn't completely enraged...especially in that part of the world. If we have specific and irrefutable information as to bin Laden's whereabouts then Pakistan should let us in to do a quick in and out...no lengthy fishing expeditions for someone who may not even be there so we can have a show for cable news shows. Of course, who the hell's going to trust our intelligence these days? We've fabricated enough bad intelligence and been just plain wrong on the rest of it to be trusted on a world stage.

In short...it's no one else's fault that Bush has a small penis and feels the need to throw his weight around. He needs to knock it the fuck off with all this big talk that serves little purpose other than to piss everyone in the world off.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Ok, deal me in.

American people have a problem. Whenever the question of a fight is raised, their response is usually along the lines of "we have more". There are times when the question should be "do we have the right?" or "is it absolutely necessary?". We've had 5 years to go nuts looking for bin Laden. You think it's just convenient timing that we're rattling our sabres in a run up to elections? The Republicans didn't deliver on a promise and now they're trying to look tough and like they're making an effort just before they're likely to lose control of congress. I know politics is riddled with bullshit, but that seems low even to me.

Last I checked Pakistan is a sovereign nation. One of the few we hadn't completely enraged...especially in that part of the world. If we have specific and irrefutable information as to bin Laden's whereabouts then Pakistan should let us in to do a quick in and out...no lengthy fishing expeditions for someone who may not even be there so we can have a show for cable news shows. Of course, who the hell's going to trust our intelligence these days? We've fabricated enough bad intelligence and been just plain wrong on the rest of it to be trusted on a world stage.

In short...it's no one else's fault that Bush has a small penis and feels the need to throw his weight around. He needs to knock it the fuck off with all this big talk that serves little purpose other than to piss everyone in the world off.

ahh no no no. i didnt say we need to go in and fight, i said that we have nuke supremicy and therefor power over them in the area of nuclear war. M.A.D. is mutually assured destruction, which is basically the reason the USA and russia never nuked each other. because we knew if we fired, they could retaliate with a force capable of wiping out a majority of our country, but by the time they retaliated we could re-retalitate and wipe them out again. this keeps superpowers from engaging in war. however pakastan does not have this luxury. not only do we have a safty net around us with the best defence and early warning systems, but no sovergn nation would fire a nuclear weapon at us as it would result in them no longer existing. a sovergn nation, not terrorist group, is in the business of building and sustaining a nation no matter what their policital background is. we do not want to fight pakistan, no where is that said, no where did i even think it was implied. we want to search pakistan for taliban and osama. you want to talk about pissing people off? well if your little pakistan and you're harboring or are believed to be harboring the most wanted man in the world you have 3 options: look for him with all your capabilities, let the biggest and most pissed off superpower who wants his head look for him(which would cost your country practically nothing compaired to doing it yourself), or tell the largest and strongest superpower in the world to fuck off and stay out of the country. we arnt trying to do anything to pakistan. as you said we're on good terms with them. we dont wana overthrow their gov't, we dont want to seize their resources, we want to go poke around in some caves and see whats under a few rocks, using missles bombs and guns. do we have the right? is it absolutly nessisary? both are about 80% yes. we have the right to hunt down an enemy regime who attacked us, just like a killer who has been on the loose for 10 years still needs to be brought to justice. 5 years isnt forget and forgive time. when you get information, RESEARCH IT then act upon it. and it is absolutly nessisary because he wants to do it again, and given the time he will. he dosnt think as rationally as you or i might think, and dosnt know that he could theoretically "get away" with 9/11 if he just laid low and didnt do anything else to us. not his style, we know that, everyone else in the world knows that, thats why it is absolutly nessicary. remeber the water ban on airplanes from a month and a half ago? now we dont know if that was a taliban plan, but its their style, their level of planning, and accomplishing what they want to do. so why take the chances? how long will we let it go on? when will we know where he is but have everyone crying and saying oh no dont go there you just want to invade. then we';ve got to deal with our people slowing us down, he knows what we know then and goes elsewhere.... he just needs to be hunted down. end of story

[GT40FIED]

Well..until I see some evidence, I've gotta disagree Chris. First of all, I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that Pakistan is harboring Osama aside from monday morning quaterbacking by media pundits who need to learn to shut the fuck up. He's had 5 years to get a head start. Fuck, he could be in Luxembourg for all we know. And, as I mentioned before, seeing as how this administration has a proclivity for fabricating intelligence, any given country would have every right to be suspicious. And I really don't think we're talking about just searching caves here. In Iraq we were promised precision attacks and ended up with thousands of civilian casualties. Damn those Pakistanies for wanting to protect the innocent from U.S. bombs! But remember...bigger bombs just spread more freedom.

You've also got a very American view of the whole situation. Who gets to decide who the most wanted man in the world is? Is it us because we're pissed? I seriously doubt he's the most wanted man in the middle east. Or Russia. Or Asia. Or many other places for that matter. And just because someone pissed us off doesn't give us the right to infiltrate a nation against their wishes. If the situation were reversed and someone had attacked Pakistan and fled to the U.S. do you think for a second we'd allow the Pakistani army onto our soil? Of course we wouldn;t...but we're willing to demonize any nation that tries to stop us from going to their country. Americans seem incapable of putting themselves into someone else's shoes and that's why everyone fucking hates us. It's not because we have freedom. Hell, if you hate freedom, bomb Amsterdam. They've got more than us. They hate us because we're arrogant pricks who think we have the moral right to do whatever we want and fuck you if you disagree.