EFI questions for GT..

[V8killimports]

GT I am planning to go to EFI and run a procharger, but I don't know anything about EFI .. at all. I was looking at the edelbrock system, but they are not compatable because they only have a 1 bar map? wtf. But a holley you can use up to 14psi wiith 2 bar map or up to 30psi with 3 bar map. Wt are they talking about? I see a basic FI setup is gonna cost me about $3000 before the SC and wonder if it's even worth it.. where is the link to the company that did your setup?

[ebpda9]

i think i've seen some places that sell carb to efi conversions

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
i think i've seen some places that sell carb to efi conversions

Edelbrock, Accel, Holley amd a number of other compaines make them... but I have other questions about all the various components such as what ignition system would be best for what I want to do.. I heard of distributorless ignitions, which to be honest I have never heard of.. I really dunno where to start..

What I want:

fuel injected small block with good throttle response, decent milage, easy to tune, that makes about 800-900hp (blown of course).

GT?

[nonovurbizniz]

Well I can help with some basics.. but obviously GT will be the man to talk to..

Lots of FI applications us a map sensor (manifold absolute pressure)... it detects the amount of vacum (or in the case of forced induction boost) and calculates how long or high to open the injectors...

Bar the metric measure of boost... that's why the different efi systems are only compatable upto a certain amount of psi because they cant read any thing over that so the injectors inject enough fuel...

I'm sure LOTS of them can have the map sensor changed to a GM 3bar... but why not just get the one built to be used at that pressure to start with...

As far as dist.less ignition... You don't "need" it... it's just more accurate and allows you to use individual coils instead of a single coil... you could run any highquality msd distributer although you'd make your life easier by getting one with a 6al or the like so you could retard the igntion as the rpms rise (to prevent pre-ignition under boost)...

[GT40FIED]

sorry...I was in KC for the weekend and just got home. Basically I'd say screw Holley and Edelbrock altogether and make your own. You can either buy an EFI intake or take a carb manifold and drill out the bungs for the injectors. You'll need to upgrade the fuel system whichever way you go to support more pressure and volume...Aeromotive makes some kick ass kits. But as for the system itself...I'd give Western Motorsports (www.wmsracing.com) a call. They sell an insanely kick ass system called SDS Injection (see my sig) for around $1300 (the stand-alone kit). Just keep in mind they mostly do Ford stuff...but I'm sure they could recommend additional hardware to finish your install (throttle body, injectors, etc.). The system hooks up with hardly any sensors and installs in about 3 or 4 hours if you've never done it before. The big plus to the SDS is that it comes with a handheld controller...no laptop required to program it. Plus it comes with 1, 2, or 3 bar MAP sensors. The MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) measures pressure at the intake vs. ambient air pressure. Since speed density systems don't measure the actual amount of air entering the engine, it uses pressure to make an educated guess and adjust fuel and timing. As for the bars...1 bar = 14.7psi of pressure (ambient barometric pressure at sea level @ 32 degrees farenheit). You'll need at least a 2 bar MAP for a blower setup...3 if you want to go higher than 14psi. If you don't wanna mess with piecing a system together, I'd go with the Holley setup. It's more expensive (if memory serves) but at a glance it's more flexible and complete. Just remember that you'll need a laptop to program the thing if you don't want to use the default program. A really powerful alternative to the SDS kit (not a kit...just the system) is the F.A.S.T (Fuel Air Spark Technology) DFI kit. Almost all DFI kits are batch fire (the fire one bank of injectors as opposed to individual) but the F.A.S.T kit has options for wideband O2 sensors, sequential injector control, and even an individual cylinder control...it even uses a datalogger at 20 frames/second Again...you need to add a laptop to ther cost if you don't already have one. If you want any more info, feel free to hit me up in this thread or in a PM. EFI (or DFI in your case) can be a total pain in the ass to set up if you've never done it before.

[V8killimports]

That's why I don't want to piece it together myself this time.. I never done it, and don't wanna spend thousands on something that won't work for shit.

Basically what I am looking for, is a kit that is almost as easy as swapping manifolds, and then have the option of slapping on a blower. I know when I do this I have to change stuff though.. and I dunno what to change. How difficult is this thing to tune?

If I get a kit from holley like the one that supports up to 800hp the range is like 560-800.. so would I only get this if the supercharger is going on at the same time?

I guess I should do this all at once??

[GT40FIED]

Ok...I looked a little closer at the Holley kit. I'd call them, but it looks like you'd be better off buying a "power pack" kit and buying the wiring harness and ECU seperately (it's all offered on Holley's site). The power pack kits will support a little over 1000hp if you use the 65lb/hr injectors. The Commander 950 MPI kit will only go up to 800hp...I like a little bit of a safety zone with my systems. I'd call Holley or email them and ask if the Commander 950 systems (not the power pack kits since the systems come with the ECU and harnesses) can support more power if larger injectors are used. If they both use the same ECU, I don't see why you wouldn't just be able to tweak the programming for bigger injectors. The problem with these types of setups are that they usually measure injector work in pulse widths or duty cycles...have fun with that. The overview of the ECU says it will work with low or high impedence injectors (only 4 low impedence injectors without an add-on part...low impedence is usually reserved for big injectors) and will support 1, 2, or 3 bar MAP sensors so my guess is that you could just buy the stuff seperately and substitute the parts you buy with the parts in the kit and then just sell the stuff that originally came with the kit. As the site says, you'll be limited to 14.7psi with the regular kit...meaning they use a 2 bar MAP. I'm assuming you'll be running either a P1SC or D series Procharger...either of which are capable of more than 14.7psi so I'd go with the 3 bar sensor. Keep in mind that the kits you see on the site are probably just a cookie-cutter kit...it can most likely be changed to suit your specific needs. I've also looked closer at the Edelbrock kit. The only one I see for SB Chevys (you're not running a big block, right?) only support 450hp. The kits look well thought out, but you wouldn't catch me dead with one. They don't look like they're too flexible. Another thing to remember is that you WILL have to fabricate the intake side piping of any blower you use to accomodate the throttle body. It won't be hard...but it'll take some doing.

[V8killimports]

I had thought some people used a bonnet and 90* elbows that fit on the throttle body. I plan on running a D or F series procharger. As for the stuff about low impedance etc etc.. I read a bit about those, but don't fully understand what they are.

Is there a kit that would support my 550hp motor now, then mu blown 900hp motor, or would I be changing all kinds of things like injectors, and other shit, and better off doing it as one step and tune?

What about my MSD ignition? I will call holley and ask, but is all of that going out the window and to some type of weird holley setup (if I went holley)?

What about sensors and all that misc little stuff that I used to be glad I didn't have?

[V8killimports]

I looked at the site and skimmed the manual.. looks pretty straight forward for the most part.. but again to my question above..

In the END I want about 800hp give or take.. so let's say I get the 800-880hp kit.. that won't even begin to be compatable with my current non-blown setup will it?

And just curious.. but I have seen a tunnel ram setup converted to EFI.. any ideas on the hp range and driveability of that? Carburated tunnel rams are about the last thing you want on a street car, but I wonder what the EFI version is like?

And lastly.. if I get a 3bar map and run 10 psi does that work? Or would I have to go to a 2 bar?

[GT40FIED]

For the most part those kits don't work well unless you stay within their power capabilities. For a less powerful engine you'd probably need to swap out injectors and make a few tweaks to the program. You *might* be able to modify the injector's duty cycle to modify the fuel output...but that probably wouldn't work too well. As far as I can tell, you'll need to switch to a GM factory distributor if you want control over timing advance. Holley's site has a list of what will work. The sensors should be pretty minimal...none of the ridiculous crap you find on factory cars, largely because you don't need all of the emissions stuff to make the DFI kits work. The 3 bar MAP will work with even an N/A motor. It just has the ability to measure more. For the blower...an F series would probably be too big for the street...it'll suck a ton of power just to turn it and you'll probably never realize it's full potential. And you can use the old 90* elbow but you'll probably have to modify the bonnet since the kits Procharger makes are for use with a carb...not TBI. Plus bonnets are a total bitch and can have horrible sealing issues. The tunnelram stuff works better with EFI...but not by a whole lot. The computer will act as sort of a plane for the manifold, but won't completely eliminate the effects of the tunnelram manifold. As for power...I haven't a clue.

[V8killimports]

Thanks for the info.. I am gonna get a book and read a bit.. I found a site actually with a guy that did exactly what I want to do.. I think I will just do it in one big $7000 project blower and all. And prob go with the holley setup..

[GT40FIED]

Yeah...if you're starting from scratch without much experience it's best to go with a flexible pre-planned kit. That way you can get some experience and figure out what works best.