.:HSTuners::::Hondas Wanted:: |
11-06-2003, 08:58 PM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Des Moines IA
Age: 39
Posts: 7,908
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Up and Running
i sold my celica tonight. i got 1300 for it. which is very good considering the condition. (rusty bucket) now, i got more money for a dx- ex swap or maybe an even bigger motor. im not sure yet. i got another car(my sisters) im driving now and threw the winter. hopefully save more money.
the only thing is....what motor to get for my 93. i can only drive the mazda for a couple months tho. so i got to decide quickly. i can get a EX vtec for it in two weeks. should i do this to get my civic running sooner? or take advanged of time and get more money for whatever i maybe able to afford in the long run?
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93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit. |
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11-06-2003, 09:05 PM
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#2 |
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Repost Wagon
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: over here
Age: 44
Posts: 17,266
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well why not get a b series if you are still at it ?
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11-06-2003, 10:26 PM
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#3 |
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Posts: n/a
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Ya, B18B's are real cheep, and they are much much better than ANY d series motor. I saw in a mag that you can get a B18B for mad cheep, like 1000 for the motor and tranny!
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11-07-2003, 10:20 AM
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#4 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Az
Age: 44
Posts: 3,804
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a b18b swap is pretty good, it'll cost way more than $1000 though.
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11-07-2003, 09:01 PM
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#5 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Des Moines IA
Age: 39
Posts: 7,908
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yea i was considering a B18c, but it would cost more then i got. at the moument.
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93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit. |
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11-09-2003, 03:11 PM
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#6 |
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4th Gear
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nashville
Age: 38
Posts: 853
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no it wont. My firend got his for 700$ dude. Az hates B's lol. A dseries to a Dseries is a waste of all that money. Invest in something worthwhile and get a B if youre gonna go throught hte trouble.
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Doody Ej1 Yse. |
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11-09-2003, 07:25 PM
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#7 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
Posts: 2,693
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A. A B18a/b is NOT a better engine than a d16z6 or y8... the d's have piston squirters.. a better r/s ratio... vtec...
B. A LS swap will cost you ABSOLUTE MINUMUM 1000 bucks... more along the lines of 1200.. sure there are deals that can be found for less... but it's not common place... and that's NOT including all the incidentals that pop up during the swap. C. A Z6 or Y8 swap costs like 300-800 bucks AT MOST... It all depends on your experience level... If you want something you can slap in and have fun with get a B... if you want something fast for cheap... build a D... it'll cost less than a b swap and be faster. You could sleeve or post a D and put budget rods/pistons in for less then you could get a LS for if you do your homework. It'd be a lot of work and too much for some but it'd definately be faster and not cost much more if at all... probobly less if you shop around. hell even skip opening up the bottom and and put a cam springs/retainers and some juice... it'd SMOKE most B's... much less a LS.
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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11-09-2003, 09:42 PM
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#8 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kenosha, WI
Age: 39
Posts: 1,137
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you can easily "bolt-on" a d series engine on your current car without the hassle of finding the right parts to go with a b series swap (ie different size transaxle, etc) if you plan on building up the internals; d series parts are "cheaper" compared to a b series and the d's are also lighter....
i'm not sayin' don't get a B series, but don't leave out the potential of a well tuned/built d series.... if your not gonna mess with the internals might as well get a b series because the power can be acquired on stock internals.. all in all it really depends on your budget, power goals, type of motorsport you want to go into, etc...
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RICE....is good |
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11-10-2003, 09:23 AM
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#9 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Des Moines IA
Age: 39
Posts: 7,908
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im going with D series V tec. just for awhile. im going do this becuase cheap, easy, faster, and like you all said less hassal. its going to be around 800 to fix. leave me with 500 from the sold car, plus the 900-1100 i have saved. im looking at around 1600 left.
yea i know take my 2400 and buy B series motor and shit. but what about D series Turbo? ....0r..... i can do this. use more of the money i made, to fix up my exterior. Such as pull out dents, CF hood, Wings West Racing Series Body Kit, 96 Style Spoiler, and new paint. what do you think of those mods? im not doing rims and tires yet. Why becuase its 20 degrees and about to snow. alloy doesnt last through a winter.
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93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit. |
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11-10-2003, 12:04 PM
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#10 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
Posts: 2,693
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Quote:
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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11-10-2003, 12:07 PM
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Des Moines IA
Age: 39
Posts: 7,908
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interesting....but would the B series in a D series add a good gain of HP and Torque or very little.
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93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit. |
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11-10-2003, 12:10 PM
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#12 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
Posts: 2,693
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Quote:
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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11-10-2003, 04:57 PM
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#13 |
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Posts: n/a
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Honestly, if you swap be prepaired to run into problems you didnt forsee. All kinds of stuff can go wrong like alternator or distributor failure in addition to other crap (like buying an online motor w/bad tranny).
I say that YOU will be happiest with either a built B18B swap or a turbo Dseries. |
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11-10-2003, 05:07 PM
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#14 | |
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Posts: n/a
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Quote:
Just cause the D16 has Vtec doesnt make it better than the B18B. Plus nonovurbuz, im sure you know that the B18B has way way more displacement than the D16 (2tenths of a liter to be exact) which makes the B18 way better than the D16. If you dont have a motor in your car, look around and find a Bseries motor (ANY BSERIES MOTOR) and put it in your car. BTW, a nasty budget buildup for the B18B = CTR, Rods, Pistons, and Crank with some agressive cams. |
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11-10-2003, 07:59 PM
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#15 |
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Yahoo Watashi wa kattaze!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Meanwhile, up in The D...
Age: 41
Posts: 10,579
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for less than the cost of a b you can make the d a 1.7L...put in a good valvetrain for high revs (>8k rpms)...slap a decent turbo on it w/ Hondata chip to govern the a/f, vtec crossover, rev limiter, and speed limiter(for OBD1 ecu...id go p28)
That would make a kick ass D series that, for the price, would probably be better than a turbo b series (factoring the cost of the engine, mods, and turbo (including hondata) Now, thats not factoring the price of better internals, so youre still gonna max out at around 10psi... At 10psi on a b18b, you damn well better be making around 200hp (idealy, using the formula of 7hp/psi...of course thats generous). So say you get a really nice deal on the b18b (my personal preference becuause vtec is harder on a turbo engine...its already stress w/ boost/vtec, so adding more stuff is gonna make it worse...believe me or not, I dont give a rip...just think about it...) or even get one for a gift...now it makes more sense...or at least it sounds like a good deal. Put all that SAME amout of work done to the d and your 1.9L NONVTEC ls will smoke 9/10 d motors, as well as some of those domestics that hate on us (figure out which ones I mean) However, back to the prices...say despite all that tuning (that you should be doing regularly on a boosted car) and all the fancy gizmo's and gauges...you blow your motor...the D is definately going to be MUCH cheaper to replace/fix. Just check out egay for proof....d16z6 for under $800...complete (that gives you a shit load of parts to use on your turbo d for this fix, as well as ones that may appear in the future) Take the B and blow it...go check out prices...hmm, a lot more money...almost 33% more $ for b parts (yes 18b stuff will be cheaper...but their pistons are ass anyways...though the rods are nice) If you have the funds...swap and boost are definately going to be better in the long run...hell the short run even more so (because theyre faster outta the box (even a b18b can keep up with a b16a2 W/ VTEC...for you vtec bitches...if driven properly...even beat it (off the line for sure)) Turbo D is a lot cheaper and definately more practical for the boost happy/cheap honda driver. As soon as you start making your motor faster...its not as reliable. That "Honda reliability" that we always talk about goes right down the shitter as soon as our cars get fast. If you want a faster than normal civic...that will be pretty decent, find a good deal on a b18c(1). It should be cheaper than a nicely built d...if it isnt cheaper, its a hell of a lot more reliable (IF you keep it stock...but thats easily more hp than you need for a daily driven fwd civic that weighs around a 2500lbs...or less if you bought a hatch thats all I have to say on the topic |
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11-10-2003, 11:42 PM
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#16 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
Posts: 2,693
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Quote:
You are a deusch. You spout of REDICULOUS b.s. that makes you sound like a defensive retard... you don't know what you're talking about and there are in-accuracy and COMPLETE falacies in just about EVERY one of your posts... I'm not going to bother pointing out why you're stupid anymore... Enjoy your 7k dollar b16.
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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11-11-2003, 06:30 AM
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#17 |
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Posts: n/a
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Im the stupid one? Im the one spouting rediculous info?
Sounds like you have a case of that yourself - sayin a D16 is better than a B18 because it has Vtec - what kinda ricer comment is that. BTW, the B16 in my car was 5k installed - no kidding thats too much to pay, but when you find out that since the motor was orriginally in a RHD car and your stock harness doesnt line up right, (and u have no car) you might be willing to front the extra $$$ to get the job done right. I think its funney how you will contradict yourself in different threads - first you say how a 1.6 is nowhere near as good as a 1.8 - then you act like a ricer and try to people that the D16 is better than the B18B because it has vtec. |
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11-11-2003, 11:08 AM
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#18 |
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Banning Machine
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My Garage, Va.
Posts: 5,547
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fuk! we're back on this subject again?
Anyway, if you were pretty close to Va, my buddies and myself would do you any swap.....B or D..... for $300 plus a case of corona....  We just did a B18C5 swap this weekend on a Delsol. It took us 2 days since we had to pull out 2 motors (both B and D). It aint that hard as long as you have a cherry picker (engine lift). We did this swap on his front yard. To add my 2psi on the D16 vs B18B swap, it just really depends on what your goal is. If you've made up your mind about D for now and B later on, I say B now! Why drop a D16 then B later on. You'll just spend more money, especially with labor. I have nothing against D16's at all. I like both but I will not do both swaps on the same car. I'm looking at the funding side here. If you think that you'll be happy with a D+turbo, then props. Going B later will just double, in some cases depending on how much the D got built, triple loss on the $$$. B will give you a higher base HP than a D, meaning you can slap a turbo on it, tune it and be happy with minor internal work. On a D16 VTEC, you can slap a turbo, strengthen the internals and boost away and could run circles on some "stock" B turboed for sure. I know a dude who is pushing 18 psi on his built D16Z6 + Hondata and have beaten a few Tegs with B18C and turbo running on stock internals. Plan plan plan plan.......  Around here, I've convinced a friend to sell a B16A (JDM SiR II) engine for $500 (no tranny, no ECU) to another friend. Then the same person who sold the B16A2 sold a B18A (no tranny) for $400. Another friend bought a B20 for $600 with an LS tranny already. I have friends who would sell you a D16Z6 for $200 or get it free just to get it out of their garage. It just takes time. Look around. Make long term decissions. I have 2 decent cars- a Civic turboed D16Y8 and a Teg with JDM B18C ITR. Neither were internally modified. They are both fun to drive, but they also differ in driving characteristics. They differ in many ways, especailly with acceleration. The turbo D16 @ 10 psi boost kicks ass but I think that my Teg will still take it. DOHC VTEC rides way different than a SOHC VTEC..... turbo or not. My advice is to drive a DOHC VTEC and take it up to engage VTEC. You will feel the diffrence from that compared to a SOHC VTEC... that is if you plan to go non-turbo except for minor basic bolt-ons. With turbos, it gets really down to tuning.......B or D..... .............. just my 2psi...... |
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11-11-2003, 11:11 AM
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#19 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
Posts: 2,693
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I don't contradict myself... you have such a crappy understanding of engines and what makes one superior to another you don't understand what I'm trying to explain to you...
A b18a or b is INFERIOR to a d16z6 for MANY reasons... vtec being the least of which... as mentioned it has Pistons squirters... I'm gunna guess you have no idea what those are... they squirt oil DIRECTLY at the bottom of the pistons to cool them and prevent detonation... this makes the engine not only suitable for MUCH higher compression... but also MUCH more suitable for turbo or nitrous... It also has a better rod/stroke ratio... allowing it to rev MUCH higher than the LS with MUCH less chance of a problem... that's why ls/vtec's blow so often... they were not designed to rev.... It has a SINGLE cam (oh yes that CAN infact be an advantage (not always... (just so you don't think I'm contradicting myself) which give it MUCH less rotating mass and top end weight... the only down side to it would be the extra weight of the extra lobes for vtec... Tuning the b18a or b's exhaust cam would AT MOST give you 2-3 hp... the lack of extra rotating weight MORE than makes up for that... (incedentally it's this theory that bisi keeps taking advantage of by building sohc engines' instead of dohc) both in the engines' ability to rev higher as well as the less rotating resistance which robs power. Given equal factors (like an itr/ctr (same technology incorporated into BOTH engines (in fact like mentioned the b16b has MORE technology and tweeaks to make the most power possible out of that motor)) .2 liters is a HUGE advantage... at 4000 rpm for example the 1.6 is flowing: 160 liters/min. at 4000 rpm the 1.8 would be flowing: 180 liters/min (rpm*displacement/4 strokes per exhaust event=flow) barring any difference between the two the 1.8 has a REDICULOUS advantage... Your inability to grasp the most simple concept of engine building is pretty sad... "there's NO replacement for displacement" Sure that's a bit simplified because like honda proved with technology and good engine building you can get adiquit power out of a small block.. and a turbo will increase theoretical displacement. but it's the simple truth... I'm done with this conversation. Wait I lied... I'm a ricer??? You PAY someone do do a swap for you and I'm a ricer????? Must be nice. Spending 5k to end up with what would have cost ANYONE with a clue under 3k... your car could be turboed ALL for something you could've found out with so much as 10mins of research into a jdm swap...
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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11-11-2003, 11:41 AM
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#20 | |
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Posts: n/a
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Wow, all this to justify the fact that YOU are stuck with a d series motor. I will agree with you that the B18b an unreliable motor, and that in many ways it has a poorer construction than the D16Z6. But for tuning purposes, its still a better motor to tune because it has more power potential and it comes with more from the factory. I will admit that i am lazy when it comes to doing work to my car so im sorry i called u a ricer. ~~SIDE NOTE~~ One question i do have for you is "Why does everybody say a JDM B16A will plug into my car using the stock wiring harness?" ** i know this is not true because me and my mechanic went under my hood and tried to plug in my stock harness. There was no way the thing would have worked because the plugs on the B16 were in completely different places than where my stock harness would have been able to reach. The guys that eventually did the wiring for me told me that with most honda engine swaps, the people doing the swap usually just string the wires across the engine bay - so it does "plug in". Why on earth did this all happen? I know its not my fault or the people that did the work - Stupid Steve From HMO said it would plug in with no hassles, but that wasnt true - oh well, i give up. |
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11-11-2003, 12:11 PM
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#21 |
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Yahoo Watashi wa kattaze!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Meanwhile, up in The D...
Age: 41
Posts: 10,579
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Im not going to allow this to run to page 3
If there is any more arguement about it...the post will be closed plain and simple it comes down to preference and how much you want to spend |
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11-11-2003, 12:41 PM
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#22 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Des Moines IA
Age: 39
Posts: 7,908
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i agree pdig. i posted this for opinions not for people to agrue. if you want to argue go to off topic. i just want peoples opinion on what i posted on page 1.
Plus i told you guys that i am going to do a D series Vtec for awhile. till my loans are paid off. then get another one for what ever motor i want at the time. so why are you still fighting over what i should do. and therm i would have you do the swap......but i live in IA. thanks for offering.
__________________
93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit. |
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11-11-2003, 10:42 PM
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#23 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
Posts: 2,693
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Quote:
__________________
I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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11-12-2003, 01:53 AM
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#24 |
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Banning Machine
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My Garage, Va.
Posts: 5,547
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He he he he.... I think we should all just get drunk....
 and talk about girls instead... |
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