.:HSTuners::

Shaved &/or Laid · 10-31-2003, 07:56 AM

Well, the newness of the swap has finally faded. Its still slow comparatively. It feels great to roast cavaliers and shit, but i want a Stang GT or a S2k under my belt, with no worries. So, nitrous seems to be the answer for a poor kid like me who stillhas to drive the car every day, and doesnt have the cash for a turbo, Ive talked to OC some about this, and hes reccomending NOS or Nx. Wondering if i could get some feedback from other N20 users and all that.

10-31-2003, 02:01 PM

You need to decide if you wanna run a wet or dry set up. as far as brand goes. they are all the same unless you run venom cause its all computerized.

thermal · 11-01-2003, 10:00 AM

any brand. i recommend wet system vice dry.

sicones · 11-01-2003, 01:41 PM

I have the zex dry kit its the easiest kit to install and is safer then wet kits I have been using mine now for about a year have had no problems, the kit has worked flawlessly. I definatly racomend the zex kit, its the most universal and easest kit to install and take out for any reason.

*AzCivic* · 11-01-2003, 02:54 PM

i say if you wanna keep the shot at 75hp or below then go with zex.

11-03-2003, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
Well, the newness of the swap has finally faded. Its still slow comparatively. It feels great to roast cavaliers and shit, but i want a Stang GT or a S2k under my belt, with no worries. So, nitrous seems to be the answer for a poor kid like me who stillhas to drive the car every day, and doesnt have the cash for a turbo, Ive talked to OC some about this, and hes reccomending NOS or Nx. Wondering if i could get some feedback from other N20 users and all that.

Go with the Zex Wet Kit because it is the easiest to use on the market. I have a friend with a GSR and he is running zex and loves it.

Just by the Zex wet kit, some titanium valve retainers, and let her rip!

11-03-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToX1k
You need to decide if you wanna run a wet or dry set up. as far as brand goes. they are all the same unless you run venom cause its all computerized.

I think the zex kit uses the best method of activation because all you have to do is have the kit active and it will work at WOT - no stupid buttons to press.

*pdiggitydogg* · 11-03-2003, 12:37 PM

i really suggest talking to oc

*AzCivic* · 11-03-2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Go with the Zex Wet Kit because it is the easiest to use on the market. I have a friend with a GSR and he is running zex and loves it.

Just by the Zex wet kit, some titanium valve retainers, and let her rip!

what do retainers have to do with anything?

11-03-2003, 09:14 PM

Gee - it might be a good idea to reinforce the retainers (or is it the springs - jeeze, i cant think now) since the valves will be opening and shutting a lot faster than normal and you dont wanna cause problems.

11-03-2003, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
i really suggest talking to oc

YEP!

*AzCivic* · 11-03-2003, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Gee - it might be a good idea to reinforce the retainers (or is it the springs - jeeze, i cant think now) since the valves will be opening and shutting a lot faster than normal and you dont wanna cause problems.

umm no, they'll be fine. if he decides to up the rev limit or go with a more aggresive cam then it'd be a good idea.

11-04-2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AzCivic
umm no, they'll be fine. if he decides to up the rev limit or go with a more aggresive cam then it'd be a good idea.

Making your stock valvetrain work with an extra 75 horsepower (especially in a honda) is a bad idea. Just cause you dont have aftermarket cams doesnt mean you dont have to touch your valvetrain.

11-04-2003, 03:34 PM

OC is the HS Nitrous specialist, he can explain it all to you

*AzCivic* · 11-04-2003, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Making your stock valvetrain work with an extra 75 horsepower (especially in a honda) is a bad idea. Just cause you dont have aftermarket cams doesnt mean you dont have to touch your valvetrain.

sure, don't listen to common sense, again.

11-04-2003, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AzCivic
sure, don't listen to common sense, again.

Quit talkin to yourself.

11-05-2003, 02:21 PM

this is the SECOND time im writing this.... **annoyed the website ate it the first time**

you just did a swap.. into a fairly old beaten car... there are some key points you need to observe

the first is how nitrous kits work

no matter what kit you get.. etra air is added, thus allowing you to add more fuel and make more power...

for this application you are looking at very basic single nozzle dry and wet kits..

for the MOST part this is the differance.. a wet kit injects fuel AND nitrous into the intake. IF you go this route the ONLY draw back is KEEP AN EYE on those lines and fittings.. if something ever comes lose on nitrous engagement you will sray gas all over your hot engine which in case you did not know is bad..

a dry kit JUST sprays nitrous and boosts fuel pressure through some OTHER means.. an NOS kit using a second nitrous solonoid as a gateway to a T one end of the T goes to the solonoid that sprays it into the intake, the other goes to a regulator that bleeds pressure to your fuel pressure reg. the increase in pressure raises fuel pressure..compensating for the nitrous. NO MATTER WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY THERE IS ONE HINT I WILL GIVE... PLUMB THE INTAKE FAR AWAY FROM THE THROTTLE BODY... like 12 inches to allow for the most even nitrous distribution possible.. all the kits listed are fine for modest increases.. but if they have not been changed yet i STRONGLY suggest a new filter AND a new fuel pump... if ANY of your fueling fails on nitrous the engine will get VERY lean and VERY hot.. this is bad...

just to voice how confident i am in the NOS kit.. it COMES with a fuel pressure safety switch.. what this does is shut off nitrous if the fuel PSI is not high enough.. i threw mine away.. lol and the kit has provided 2 solid years of reliable service..

i STRONGLY suggest a heater.. and a nitrous pressure gauge..

11-05-2003, 02:24 PM

and those of you with the zex propaganda.. you would think you guys have zex stock.. lol ALL dry and wet kits are EQUALLY easy to instal.. i went with NOS due to there stand up reputation and EXCELLENT customer support.. and NOS Zex NX 50 shot is still JUST a 50 shot.. not matter how you cut it.. none is really better...
if you want ease with good customer support go NOS
if you want a wet kit get NX

11-05-2003, 03:18 PM

Oc, i got a question - i red theat honda intake manifolds are Bias twards certain cylanders. If you combine this with the fact that Fuel is heavier than NOS, a wet kit really doesnt do anything to prevent getting a lean condition at all (or does it?).

So, if this is true, it would be safer to buy a Dry Kit and just make sure you upgrade the neccessary stuff to make sure your motor WILL get the neccessary fuel when you spray?

thanks in advance

11-05-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Oc, i got a question - i red theat honda intake manifolds are Bias twards certain cylanders. If you combine this with the fact that Fuel is heavier than NOS, a wet kit really doesnt do anything to prevent getting a lean condition at all (or does it?).

So, if this is true, it would be safer to buy a Dry Kit and just make sure you upgrade the neccessary stuff to make sure your motor WILL get the neccessary fuel when you spray?

thanks in advance

well heres teh downfall of dry..

with LOW hp applications its FINE... 50-70 ish.. since if you plug the nozzle 10-12 inches away its not really FORCED into the intake... if its right in front of the intake.. its going to spray heavy into the back of it thus causeing the last cylinder to get more nitrous.. and the SAME fuel as the other cyl... this is bad because now on cyl is fine 2 are rich and one is lean.. OR if the nitrous shot is too high 100 shot (example) the %25 %25 %25 %25 distribution of fuel is no good as too much nitrous will be forced in the back.. thus causeing alean condition...

wet sprays gas AND nitrous.. so if its forced back its ok because so is the fuel.. thus causing the distribution to be pretty even...

anything higher than 90 id suggest direct port as that is ULTIMATE PERFECT distribution..

hope that helps

11-05-2003, 07:04 PM

Umm, this may sound stupid, but do you get as much HP out of the same shot if you mount the nozzle farther away from the T/B?

Im guessing no, since ZEX just made a air filter w/a nitrous solonoid in it.

11-05-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Umm, this may sound stupid, but do you get as much HP out of the same shot if you mount the nozzle farther away from the T/B?

Im guessing no, since ZEX just made a air filter w/a nitrous solonoid in it.

are you sure?? it MUST have a solonoid??

a solonoid is a gate that opens or closes nitrous flow

*AzCivic* · 11-05-2003, 08:55 PM

it has a nozzle on the filter not a solenoid.

so oc, did you change your retainers or springs???

11-05-2003, 10:33 PM

Regaurdless of wether he did or not does not mean it is not possible to get "Valve Float" when using Nitrous (especially a big shot).

Stock Valve springs (in your case, Dseries valve springs) are not designed to move as fast as a shot of Naws is capable of making them move - therefore, its a good idea to upgrade this so you dont get valve float.

BTW, its always a good idea to use performance springs with performance retainers.

I'd be willing to bet some CTR springs and Retainers (since they are good till 9k rpms) would be a great "inexpensive" way to beef up your valvetrain to handle more nnnnaaaaawwwwwwssssss.

11-06-2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AzCivic
it has a nozzle on the filter not a solenoid.

i totaly understand that.. but it still must have a solonoid?a solonoid does not replace a nozzle and a nozzle does not replace a solonoid

Quote:

Originally posted by AzCivic
so oc, did you change your retainers or springs???

of course not... and i have over 2 years of spraying through this motor... NO PROBLEMS

11-06-2003, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Regaurdless of wether he did or not does not mean it is not possible to get "Valve Float" when using Nitrous (especially a big shot).

Stock Valve springs (in your case, Dseries valve springs) are not designed to move as fast as a shot of Naws is capable of making them move - therefore, its a good idea to upgrade this so you dont get valve float.

BTW, its always a good idea to use performance springs with performance retainers.

I'd be willing to bet some CTR springs and Retainers (since they are good till 9k rpms) would be a great "inexpensive" way to beef up your valvetrain to handle more nnnnaaaaawwwwwwssssss.

absolutely NO disrespect, but what you are saying is sillly..

i KNOW people who have run wet 100 shots on y8s.... for quite some time.. with NO internal work.. and the car ran great.. ive installed SO MANY nitrous kits on hondas and only a couple were built... and they all respond the same to reasonable shots... the problem with nirous NORMALY is not the motor.. its lack of fueling... which leads to detonation...

Shaved &/or Laid · 11-06-2003, 03:34 PM

lack teh of teh fueling

meaning i need to get a Nitrous pressure gague AND what ?
a VAFC or something to watch and make sure ? i love vafc's.

11-06-2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
lack teh of teh fueling

meaning i need to get a Nitrous pressure gague AND what ?
a VAFC or something to watch and make sure ? i love vafc's.

a nitrous pressure gauge is just so you knwo if you need to turn on the heater or not.. heating the nitrous raises the bottle pressure, thus giving you better nitrous delivery.. you absolutely do not need a vafc..

you SHOULD get a new fuel pump and a new fuel filter before spraying.. i have a autometer fuel pressure gauge with isolator so i can keep an eye on fuel pressure.. hope that helps

Shaved &/or Laid · 11-06-2003, 05:45 PM

but i thought VAFC and SAFC were used to change fuel maps and such.

11-06-2003, 05:47 PM

KEY POINT

all your nitrous kits are designed to work with STOCK motors, and ecus...

a WELL tuned vafc by a REPUTABLE DYNO TUNER could never hurt.. but TOTALY over kill

11-06-2003, 05:48 PM

edit...

all your BASIC nitrous kits...

sicones · 11-06-2003, 07:33 PM

did I miss out here the MOST important guage and probably the only one you need is a AIR/FUEL ratio guage!!!!

11-06-2003, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sicones
did I miss out here the MOST important guage and probably the only one you need is a AIR/FUEL ratio guage!!!!

Or get the Exhaust temperature and Fuel pressure gauges.

11-07-2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sicones
did I miss out here the MOST important guage and probably the only one you need is a AIR/FUEL ratio guage!!!!

air fuel gauge is a total joke...

as stated EGT or fuel pressure are the only two really usefull gauges..

and PLEASE... dont tell me that the little dancing leds tell you anything.. they dont.. (no offense of course)

11-07-2003, 09:39 AM

Ima jump in here on the end up this. ball park how much is it to fill up a 10lb bottle of dry. And I've read this entiire thread, and sitll havent decided which is "Safer" to run on stock internals dry, or wet. either way Im gettin Zex.

*AzCivic* · 11-07-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashizslick
Regaurdless of wether he did or not does not mean it is not possible to get "Valve Float" when using Nitrous (especially a big shot).

Stock Valve springs (in your case, Dseries valve springs) are not designed to move as fast as a shot of Naws is capable of making them move - therefore, its a good idea to upgrade this so you dont get valve float.

BTW, its always a good idea to use performance springs with performance retainers.

I'd be willing to bet some CTR springs and Retainers (since they are good till 9k rpms) would be a great "inexpensive" way to beef up your valvetrain to handle more nnnnaaaaawwwwwwssssss.

so how will the valve springs move any faster??? if you keep the stock revlimit they're still only going to move as fast as stock at each rpm point. you'll move through the rpm range faster than stock but so does putting it in neutral and revving the engine.

the cam's profile and how fast the engine is spinning determines what springs you need. by looking at this animation: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

you can see that the springs are not under any strain during the power stroke of the pistons. the only thing that is under any amount extra strain in the valvetrain are the valves and theyre wedged into the head.

btw the animation should have the springs compressing, not moving up and down with the valve.

*AzCivic* · 11-07-2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToX1k
Ima jump in here on the end up this. ball park how much is it to fill up a 10lb bottle of dry. And I've read this entiire thread, and sitll havent decided which is "Safer" to run on stock internals dry, or wet. either way Im gettin Zex.

theyre both safe at any shot that you can run on a stock engine.

11-07-2003, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToX1k
Ima jump in here on the end up this. ball park how much is it to fill up a 10lb bottle of dry. And I've read this entiire thread, and sitll havent decided which is "Safer" to run on stock internals dry, or wet. either way Im gettin Zex.

both are fine.. dry elimnates having to splice into fuel lines which SOME people should not due.. lol

if you go wet.. you just have to be more cautious with the instalation process...

11-07-2003, 01:14 PM

So all in all they are both some what equally safe. I was going to have my local speed shop do the install for me cause I dont wanna screw something up.

sicones · 11-08-2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oc civic
air fuel gauge is a total joke...

as stated EGT or fuel pressure are the only two really usefull gauges..

and PLEASE... dont tell me that the little dancing leds tell you anything.. they dont.. (no offense of course)

Im not even going to argue that one of course air/fuel ratio gauges dont work there just for show lol

10-31-2003, 07:56 AM	#1
Shaved &/or Laid 4th Gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nashville Age: 38 Posts: 853	Nitrous y0 Well, the newness of the swap has finally faded. Its still slow comparatively. It feels great to roast cavaliers and shit, but i want a Stang GT or a S2k under my belt, with no worries. So, nitrous seems to be the answer for a poor kid like me who stillhas to drive the car every day, and doesnt have the cash for a turbo, Ive talked to OC some about this, and hes reccomending NOS or Nx. Wondering if i could get some feedback from other N20 users and all that. __________________ Doody Ej1 Yse.

11-01-2003, 10:00 AM	#3
thermal Banning Machine Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: My Garage, Va. Posts: 5,547	any brand. i recommend wet system vice dry. __________________ Project Teg Visit the Turbo Forum

11-06-2003, 03:34 PM	#27
Shaved &/or Laid 4th Gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nashville Age: 38 Posts: 853	lack teh of teh fueling meaning i need to get a Nitrous pressure gague AND what ? a VAFC or something to watch and make sure ? i love vafc's. __________________ Doody Ej1 Yse.

11-06-2003, 05:45 PM	#29
Shaved &/or Laid 4th Gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nashville Age: 38 Posts: 853	but i thought VAFC and SAFC were used to change fuel maps and such. __________________ Doody Ej1 Yse.

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10-31-2003, 02:01 PM	#2
ToX1k Posts: n/a	You need to decide if you wanna run a wet or dry set up. as far as brand goes. they are all the same unless you run venom cause its all computerized.

11-01-2003, 01:41 PM	#4
sicones Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the MVP garage, New York City Posts: 516	I have the zex dry kit its the easiest kit to install and is safer then wet kits I have been using mine now for about a year have had no problems, the kit has worked flawlessly. I definatly racomend the zex kit, its the most universal and easest kit to install and take out for any reason.

11-01-2003, 02:54 PM	#5
AzCivic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Az Age: 44 Posts: 3,804	i say if you wanna keep the shot at 75hp or below then go with zex.

11-03-2003, 12:37 PM	#8
pdiggitydogg Yahoo Watashi wa kattaze! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Meanwhile, up in The D... Age: 41 Posts: 10,579	i really suggest talking to oc

11-03-2003, 09:14 PM	#10
cashizslick Posts: n/a	Gee - it might be a good idea to reinforce the retainers (or is it the springs - jeeze, i cant think now) since the valves will be opening and shutting a lot faster than normal and you dont wanna cause problems.

11-04-2003, 03:34 PM	#14
Shot 2 Hel Posts: n/a	OC is the HS Nitrous specialist, he can explain it all to you

11-05-2003, 02:21 PM	#17
oc civic Posts: n/a	this is the SECOND time im writing this.... annoyed the website ate it the first time you just did a swap.. into a fairly old beaten car... there are some key points you need to observe the first is how nitrous kits work no matter what kit you get.. etra air is added, thus allowing you to add more fuel and make more power... for this application you are looking at very basic single nozzle dry and wet kits.. for the MOST part this is the differance.. a wet kit injects fuel AND nitrous into the intake. IF you go this route the ONLY draw back is KEEP AN EYE on those lines and fittings.. if something ever comes lose on nitrous engagement you will sray gas all over your hot engine which in case you did not know is bad.. a dry kit JUST sprays nitrous and boosts fuel pressure through some OTHER means.. an NOS kit using a second nitrous solonoid as a gateway to a T one end of the T goes to the solonoid that sprays it into the intake, the other goes to a regulator that bleeds pressure to your fuel pressure reg. the increase in pressure raises fuel pressure..compensating for the nitrous. NO MATTER WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY THERE IS ONE HINT I WILL GIVE... PLUMB THE INTAKE FAR AWAY FROM THE THROTTLE BODY... like 12 inches to allow for the most even nitrous distribution possible.. all the kits listed are fine for modest increases.. but if they have not been changed yet i STRONGLY suggest a new filter AND a new fuel pump... if ANY of your fueling fails on nitrous the engine will get VERY lean and VERY hot.. this is bad... just to voice how confident i am in the NOS kit.. it COMES with a fuel pressure safety switch.. what this does is shut off nitrous if the fuel PSI is not high enough.. i threw mine away.. lol and the kit has provided 2 solid years of reliable service.. i STRONGLY suggest a heater.. and a nitrous pressure gauge..

11-05-2003, 02:24 PM	#18
oc civic Posts: n/a	and those of you with the zex propaganda.. you would think you guys have zex stock.. lol ALL dry and wet kits are EQUALLY easy to instal.. i went with NOS due to there stand up reputation and EXCELLENT customer support.. and NOS Zex NX 50 shot is still JUST a 50 shot.. not matter how you cut it.. none is really better... if you want ease with good customer support go NOS if you want a wet kit get NX

11-05-2003, 03:18 PM	#19
cashizslick Posts: n/a	Oc, i got a question - i red theat honda intake manifolds are Bias twards certain cylanders. If you combine this with the fact that Fuel is heavier than NOS, a wet kit really doesnt do anything to prevent getting a lean condition at all (or does it?). So, if this is true, it would be safer to buy a Dry Kit and just make sure you upgrade the neccessary stuff to make sure your motor WILL get the neccessary fuel when you spray? thanks in advance

11-05-2003, 07:04 PM	#21
cashizslick Posts: n/a	Umm, this may sound stupid, but do you get as much HP out of the same shot if you mount the nozzle farther away from the T/B? Im guessing no, since ZEX just made a air filter w/a nitrous solonoid in it.

11-05-2003, 08:55 PM	#23
AzCivic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Az Age: 44 Posts: 3,804	it has a nozzle on the filter not a solenoid. so oc, did you change your retainers or springs???

11-05-2003, 10:33 PM	#24
cashizslick Posts: n/a	Regaurdless of wether he did or not does not mean it is not possible to get "Valve Float" when using Nitrous (especially a big shot). Stock Valve springs (in your case, Dseries valve springs) are not designed to move as fast as a shot of Naws is capable of making them move - therefore, its a good idea to upgrade this so you dont get valve float. BTW, its always a good idea to use performance springs with performance retainers. I'd be willing to bet some CTR springs and Retainers (since they are good till 9k rpms) would be a great "inexpensive" way to beef up your valvetrain to handle more nnnnaaaaawwwwwwssssss.

11-06-2003, 05:47 PM	#30
oc civic Posts: n/a	KEY POINT all your nitrous kits are designed to work with STOCK motors, and ecus... a WELL tuned vafc by a REPUTABLE DYNO TUNER could never hurt.. but TOTALY over kill

11-06-2003, 05:48 PM	#31
oc civic Posts: n/a	edit... all your BASIC nitrous kits...

11-06-2003, 07:33 PM	#32
sicones Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the MVP garage, New York City Posts: 516	did I miss out here the MOST important guage and probably the only one you need is a AIR/FUEL ratio guage!!!!

11-07-2003, 09:39 AM	#35
ToX1k Posts: n/a	Ima jump in here on the end up this. ball park how much is it to fill up a 10lb bottle of dry. And I've read this entiire thread, and sitll havent decided which is "Safer" to run on stock internals dry, or wet. either way Im gettin Zex.

11-07-2003, 01:14 PM	#39
ToX1k Posts: n/a	So all in all they are both some what equally safe. I was going to have my local speed shop do the install for me cause I dont wanna screw something up.