Low end torque....

On a turbo b18c1, what would you guys recomend that i put in/on my engine to create more low end torque, and still not lose too much high end power? cause u know hondas and there pussy low end torque, heh.

[2ndGenTeg]

bore for displacement

[AzCivic]

A small turbo, or bore it out to a 2ltr(you'll need to resleeve the block and get new pistons and might as well put in some good rods, then you can put on a Big turbo), nitrous, lightweight flywheel, underdrive pulley's, adjustable cam gears and dyno time to get the power curve shifted a little more toward the low end, shave the head or put in some High comp pistons, stroker kit(probably not the greatest idea), supercharger.

Originally posted by AzCivic
A small turbo, or bore it out to a 2ltr(you'll need to resleeve the block and get new pistons and might as well put in some good rods, then you can put on a Big turbo), nitrous, lightweight flywheel, underdrive pulley's, adjustable cam gears and dyno time to get the power curve shifted a little more toward the low end, shave the head or put in some High comp pistons, stroker kit(probably not the greatest idea), supercharger.

Isn't boring out my block illegal? If not, how much does that run for a 4 cyl? Also, boring out the block would also gain me some high end power too right? not just low end...am i right?

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
Isn't boring out my block illegal? If not, how much does that run for a 4 cyl? Also, boring out the block would also gain me some high end power too right? not just low end...am i right?

Its about as illegal as putting on a CAI. Its going to cost you though, Its not really worth it if you plan on keeping it naturally aspirated, now if you want a good turbo setup later on, this will be a solid foundation(assuming you do it right with good rods, pistons, sleeves). If you dont want to put the engine together yourself i suggest having it sent somewhere like this place http://www.exospeed.com/engine/Braceblocks.htm where they'll do all the work and you just put the engine back in the car and reconnect all the sensors and crap.

Yes it'll increase low, mid, and top end.

Originally posted by AzCivic
Its about as illegal as putting on a CAI. Its going to cost you though, Its not really worth it if you plan on keeping it naturally aspirated, now if you want a good turbo setup later on, this will be a solid foundation(assuming you do it right with good rods, pistons, sleeves). If you dont want to put the engine together yourself i suggest having it sent somewhere like this place http://www.exospeed.com/engine/Braceblocks.htm where they'll do all the work and you just put the engine back in the car and reconnect all the sensors and crap.

Yes it'll increase low, mid, and top end.

Eh...CAI's are illegal?

And i kinda wanted to do it myself, all the rebuilding. That way I can learn how to do all of this and have a completely custom engine also.

[TeriyakiBroccoli]

no reboring is fine.

Go to a shop, and have them rebuild your engine.. but ask them if you can watch.. thats probably the best way to learn w/o ****ing up your engine.

Originally posted by TeriyakiBroccoli
no reboring is fine.

Go to a shop, and have them rebuild your engine.. but ask them if you can watch.. thats probably the best way to learn w/o ****ing up your engine.

heh, yea, i guess....but i can also then still pick the parts that go into it right? I wanted to build an engine with a lot of HKS parts, cause i know they make good stuff.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
Eh...CAI's are illegal?

And i kinda wanted to do it myself, all the rebuilding. That way I can learn how to do all of this and have a completely custom engine also.

I was kidding.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
heh, yea, i guess....but i can also then still pick the parts that go into it right? I wanted to build an engine with a lot of HKS parts, cause i know they make good stuff.

You can tell them to put whatever you want in it, you better off getting the parts yourself though, they'll probably charge you MSRP.

HKS makes good stuff(they dont make much as far as engine components go) but its over priced. I say get Eagle rods(Crower if you got the cash), JE pistons, Honda rod/main bearings, and a resleeve from someplace reputable. Do you got alot of money???

Originally posted by AzCivic
You can tell them to put whatever you want in it, you better off getting the parts yourself though, they'll probably charge you MSRP.

HKS makes good stuff(they dont make much as far as engine components go) but its over priced. I say get Eagle rods(Crower if you got the cash), JE pistons, Honda rod/main bearings, and a resleeve from someplace reputable. Do you got alot of money???

i'm workin for the money right now lemmy work on the engine....

I was gunna buy the engine when i had the money, and then put it on an engine stand in my garage, and rebuild it myself...i'd work for the money, and whever i had the money, i'd buy a new component, and install it....sounds like fun to me

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
i'm workin for the money right now lemmy work on the engine....

I was gunna buy the engine when i had the money, and then put it on an engine stand in my garage, and rebuild it myself...i'd work for the money, and whever i had the money, i'd buy a new component, and install it....sounds like fun to me

Well sounds like you got a pretty good plan then, so your first step is to get a Helms manual, then the engine stand, then the tools. Next read, reread, and read again the Helms manual and throw down the cash for the swap. Your still going to have to send(or take) the block somewhere to get resleeved(not a DIY kinda thing) and once thats done take it home and start assembling!

Originally posted by AzCivic
Well sounds like you got a pretty good plan then, so your first step is to get a Helms manual, then the engine stand, then the tools. Next read, reread, and read again the Helms manual and throw down the cash for the swap. Your still going to have to send(or take) the block somewhere to get resleeved(not a DIY kinda thing) and once thats done take it home and start assembling!

Yep, gun be fun ...i might wanna bring it to the shop to get it bored out too hehe....my friends said that it wouldnt'be good for the engien to bore it out...it would go boom....and i'm like, wTF?!?! that doens't sound right, theres plenty of space to bore out .2 more liters

I am also going to be takling an auto mechanics calss...this will help i assume

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
Yep, gun be fun ...i might wanna bring it to the shop to get it bored out too hehe....my friends said that it wouldnt'be good for the engien to bore it out...it would go boom....and i'm like, wTF?!?! that doens't sound right, theres plenty of space to bore out .2 more liters

I am also going to be takling an auto mechanics calss...this will help i assume

Your friend is probably thinking of having it bored with the stock sleeves, but with aftermarket sleeves its nothing to worry about.
Yeah have the shop bore it as well.

The auto class can only help, unless you get a stupid teacher who doesnt know what the hell their talking about.

Edit: Clarification for OPAK: the auto class will help, BUT if you get a stupid teacher it will not.

Originally posted by AzCivic
The auto class can only help, unless you get a stupid teacher who doesnt know what the hell their talking about.

Wait what? so it'll only help if i get a stupid teacher? lol, hmm?

wait,s o how does it work? how do the sleeves work into the whole picture of the block in my head, hehe. they jsut pop in, or...? and do you actually bore out the sleeves, or do you take the sleeves out and bore the block? then get bigger sleeves? ...get me? hehe

[AzCivic]

Yeah the stupider the better

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
wait,s o how does it work? how do the sleeves work into the whole picture of the block in my head, hehe. they jsut pop in, or...? and do you actually bore out the sleeves, or do you take the sleeves out and bore the block? then get bigger sleeves? ...get me? hehe

Ok the sleeves(or cylinder walls) are what hold the pistons(and contain the combustion process) so the bigger around they are the bigger pistons they can hold resulting in more displacement, and ultimately in more power. The stock sleeves are thin and cannot be bored very much, so you have them taken out and replaced with thicker/stronger sleeves which then can be bored without worry(to a point of course). Did that help?

Originally posted by AzCivic
Yeah the stupider the better

hehe....well, its sounded that way, hehehe.

Originally posted by AzCivic
Ok the sleeves(or cylinder walls) are what hold the pistons(and contain the combustion process) so the bigger around they are the bigger pistons they can hold resulting in more displacement, and ultimately in more power. The stock sleeves are thin and cannot be bored very much, so you have them taken out and replaced with thicker/stronger sleeves which then can be bored without worry(to a point of course). Did that help?

Yes, so i'd bore mine out to a 2.0 liter right? Also, so what pistons would i buy then? i wouldn't get the gsr pistons still cause they're too small right?

[AzCivic]

Here: http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/c...c/compcalc.php

Play with this, notice that if you increase the bore(by a few mm's) and leave everything else the same your displacement increases. Also notice that if you increase the bore and leave the piston dome height/dish the same the compression will jump aswell. So to get it back down to normal you'll have to get pistons with less dome displacement(or deeper dish), but at the same time the head volume will increase(you gotta bore the head to match up with the sleeves, which will help unshroud the valves, a good thing) which might cancel out some of the compression increase. The shop that does the resleeve will be able to give you exact answers.

You'd still get GSR pistons they would just be oversized, most piston manufactures should have them.

Originally posted by AzCivic
Here: http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/c...c/compcalc.php

Play with this, notice that if you increase the bore(by a few mm's) and leave everything else the same your displacement increases. Also notice that if you increase the bore and leave the piston dome height/dish the same the compression will jump aswell. So to get it back down to normal you'll have to get pistons with less dome displacement(or deeper dish), but at the same time the head volume will increase(you gotta bore the head to match up with the sleeves, which will help unshroud the valves, a good thing) which might cancel out some of the compression increase. The shop that does the resleeve will be able to give you exact answers.

You'd still get GSR pistons they would just be oversized, most piston manufactures should have them.

Hehe, ok, i have to go read that message again so i can fully understand it, haha....u=smart thanks man.

OPAK...i'm tired now, night night

[AzCivic]

Cool I got to get to sleep as well, peace.

So is there a certain bore size for 2.0 liters? 2.0 liters will be enough low end torque i think....i've driven my friends 240sx and its a 2.0 liter...if my engine would hbe anythign like that after the bore, its jsut fine, hehe.

Also....about how much torque will it add? from driving my buddies 240, it seems like theres a lot more torque than a 1.8.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
So is there a certain bore size for 2.0 liters? 2.0 liters will be enough low end torque i think....i've driven my friends 240sx and its a 2.0 liter...if my engine would hbe anythign like that after the bore, its jsut fine, hehe.

Its 86 or 87mm's, stock is 81mm i believe

If he has the stock engine its a 2.4ltr, if he did a sr20det swap then its a 2ltr.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
Also....about how much torque will it add? from driving my buddies 240, it seems like theres a lot more torque than a 1.8.

It'll add about 15ftlbs of torque or so, I got that from messing with desktop dyno so dont take it as straight fact, but that should be ABOUT right.

So stock is like 127ftlbs + 15ftlbs= 142ftlbs or so.

Originally posted by AzCivic
It'll add about 15ftlbs of torque or so, I got that from messing with desktop dyno so dont take it as straight fact, but that should be ABOUT right.

So stock is like 127ftlbs + 15ftlbs= 142ftlbs or so.

yea, and rebuild and mods will add more of course.

Hey, i gotta question that doens't really pertain to this subject, hehe...but since i got you here...

What parts can go together well? i was thinking of rebuilding my engine with pretty much mugen everything if i can, except the cams....do these two brands work together well? do ya get my question? hehe somtimes i can confuse myself...

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING

What parts can go together well? i was thinking of rebuilding my engine with pretty much mugen everything if i can, except the cams....do these two brands work together well? do ya get my question? hehe somtimes i can confuse myself...

Its not a question of what brands work well together but which parts work together.

Its not like clothes trying to stick with Nike stuff if your wearing Nike shoes or something.

You decide what you need the engine to do and then put together all the parts that'll make it do what you want. Plus i dont think anyone makes bad engine components, it takes alot of money/expertise to make these. So cheap ass companies trying to make a quick buck arent going to try, they'll stick to easy crap like intakes, exhausts and short shifters, etc.

So do you plan on running a turbo or nitrous? that'll make a big difference in what components you get.

Originally posted by AzCivic
So do you plan on running a turbo or nitrous? that'll make a big difference in what components you get.

Both

[AzCivic]

So then you'll need a somewhat lower compression with very strong internals. Like i said before, JE or wiseco pistons, crower rods and a resleeve.

Originally posted by AzCivic
So then you'll need a somewhat lower compression with very strong internals. Like i said before, JE or wiseco pistons, crower rods and a resleeve.

so you don't think that mugen internals would be strong enough? i know spoon is for the N/A hondas and mugen is made more for the turbo hondas....so i was thinking all mugen everything, and spoon cams...? tell me what you think, if that set up that you listed above is better than all mugen internals then i'd go for it...

[AzCivic]

If the mugen internals are meant for boost I'm sure they'll be strong enough, but are they worth their higher price tag? No.

As far as cams go, there are F/I cams and there are N/A cams both with different specs. So a N/A cam wouldnt be good for a F/I motor.

Originally posted by AzCivic
As far as cams go, there are F/I cams and there are N/A cams both with different specs. So a N/A cam wouldnt be good for a F/I motor.

yea...that'd make sense...

heheh

Yea....now i thought of traction problems with the amount of boost i'm gunna try to put...bah

no i'm looking at just getting a Spoon b18c5....and then i can say i have a spoon civic to hehe

i dunno, i'm thinking about all this shit....and still trying to keep my grades up its hard. heh

[AzCivic]

There are ways to solve traction problems.

What if a dude beats you with a D16turbo, is saying you have a spoon powered civic gonna make you feel better?

In order of importance: Family, school, car

I've seen spoon civic type r's beat turbo mr2's....they are still fast even if they're N/A. and plus, later i would like to get a Lexus IS300...so i don't need to spending my money on a turbo kit...i'd like to get the spoon engine, and be fast immediately, rather than get the engine, and have to save up another 6 gees to get the turbo...when i could have an IS300 which would have way mroe potential.

[AzCivic]

So just how much is a spoon motor gonna cost?

And do you have a dyno graph for one?

Originally posted by AzCivic
So just how much is a spoon motor gonna cost?

And do you have a dyno graph for one?

i'm pretty sure the engine will be under 8k, and i don't kniow where to find a dino graph.

[AzCivic]

The reason i ask to see a dyno is because i want to see where the power is being made. Normal driving is in the 2k-6kRPM range, if all the power for this motor is at like 6-10kRPMs its not going to be a good engine to drive around with.

But hey, if you dont mind driving around revving all high and constantly downshifting, its all good.

[TeriyakiBroccoli]

arent the mr2s like 130-140 hp?

thats laughable.