.:HSTuners::::Hondas Wanted:: |
04-22-2003, 10:37 AM
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#41 |
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Thought Police
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: orlando florida
Age: 41
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not street drivable? no. there are quite a few h22 preldues putting 300+hp street driven, and ive known of a few(2) that were 450+ street driven(crazy boost) preludes have mroe traction problems than civics... i think it can be dine, but it must be done right. tuning is EVERYTHING
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Black Vtec Prelude-h22a power'd  Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings. I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. |
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04-22-2003, 12:55 PM
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#42 |
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the only way to have any kind of traction with that kind of power is to have a computer control system retarding boost or throttle in order to avoid wheel slippage... other than that you go anywhere over 1/4 throttle it'll just break'em loose.
Keep in mind A LOT of the times when a mag or person says I have a 400 hp street driven car they mean that it is capable of 400 hp and is tuned down to run on the street.. A friend of mine's buddy had a fully built/worked b16 in a del sol and it was TOTALLY undrivable even with the boost turned down and the nitros off. YES he ran both. the car was dynoed at 400 hp w/o nitrous... running 18lbs with a maximum boost level of 20 (never dynoed though)... he was snapping axels left and right and if he did so much as touch the gas when letting out the clutch the car just went sideways... not like the assend came out like a crab... it would just sping the tires and lurch to the right really slow... he gave up on having a street/track car and made it all track. then he sold it. FOR A HUGE LOSS... that's the thing with these things... people start off with little to no experience build a car that's MORE powerfull then they really wanted or the platform is COMPLETELY inappropriate for the power... I say if you want HIGH hp and a street driven car your stuck to picking AWD cars... I wouldn't even do a RWD... they're almost as bad in different ways. Sure you CAN do it... but will you have a car that's good all around like you started with... NO. you'll have a hp producing beast that can't USE that power effectively. I don't know about you but I want a car that takes advantage of it's power not one that's left helpless because of it.
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04-22-2003, 01:04 PM
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#43 |
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^haha yeah, agreed
magazine racing, woohoo 
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yeah, its that big |
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04-22-2003, 02:23 PM
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#44 |
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Thought Police
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: orlando florida
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ok let me refrase it then.... i know someone who was running 475ish whp in a prelude on the street(535 at track). its just you have to know how to drive the car. i can loose traction to the point of me not going as fast just by nailing it in 1st and a little in 2nd gear... but i dont.. cause i know how to drive my car. it can be done, im not saying its wise... i dont think its wise at all to mod your primary vehical anymore(my next mod-a-car will be when i own 2 cars)
thh point is.. you said it cant be done, it CAN be done and is done alot if your smart about it and go through the nessisary suspension/tire combo. you cant tell me that a 400hp civi8c has more traction problems that all these 600+hp supras/rx7's/camaros/mustangs on the street that i KNOW are around here cause i see them whenever i want. your thinking that a 400hp civic is insane. sure it is for a ciivc... but i'd MUCH rather have bad traction from a fwd car than from a rwd car IF im trying to drive a daily driver. and who was magazine racing? i dont even read car magazines
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Black Vtec Prelude-h22a power'd Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings. I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. |
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04-22-2003, 03:13 PM
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#45 | |
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Quote:
Theres a prob with that....i can't get a 240sx, cause my best friend has one, and i can't copy him :( Whats another car a skyline engine can fit into? |
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04-22-2003, 03:47 PM
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#46 | |
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Quote:
Haha, I understand that... skyline engines also fit into the 350z/g35  ... hehe seriously, look at MKIII Supra Turbos, damn good looking, good handling, easy to mod and fairly reliable... did I mention quite cheap too? And you won't have the same thing as probably 300,000 people (modded civics)...
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yeah, its that big |
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04-22-2003, 03:47 PM
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#47 |
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Project Combat Honda
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Highland,OH
Age: 46
Posts: 7,985
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Wanna be different, get an old Datsun and put a SR20DET or even better a 350.. Im sure with some custom parts it would fit nicely.:o
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04-22-2003, 03:49 PM
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#48 |
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^not a bad idea at all...
there would be tons of room left in the engine bay for, say, a turbo a big IC piping I dont think those are supposed to handle well (not sure abt that though), but that could be changed with some mods...
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04-22-2003, 03:54 PM
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#49 | |
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Project Combat Honda
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Highland,OH
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Quote:
Ive seen some of the older Datsuns handle pretty well, thats what aftermarket suspension is for!.. 
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Racing Rice |
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04-22-2003, 03:56 PM
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#50 |
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Project Combat Honda
Join Date: Sep 2001
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04-22-2003, 04:36 PM
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#51 |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: so cali again
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there is more than one kind of 240sx. you can go s13 coupe or fastback, s14 with one of two front end styles. or be gay and get a s13 convertible. you could get a sentra, 91+, any year after that all the way up to 2001, and swap a sr20det into it and have your turboed fwd car. you wanna swap an rb26? they fit very well into an M30, if you have all this cash why don't you just get an R32 GT-S from Motorex for around 20G's and swap in the rb26, final cost on this venture probably in the low 30's. and a 510 with a det in it with a nice suspension will handle really well. how much money do you have? I know plenty of people on the west coast if you're serious who will make the car you want.
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04-22-2003, 05:12 PM
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#52 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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I NEVER said magazine racing... I was just saying a lot of the times people say I have xxx hp and that's 1 time on the dyno. or that's their track setting...
I also don't think I said that a 400 hp civic is impossible because there are plenty of them... What I said was if your plan is to dump this much money into a car then you civic is not the best option... not only could you sell it and get more money for it then you'll pay for another car of the same year but that car will handle the power better. As far as prefering to have fwd over rwd... I'm not trying to offend you but... that HAS to be because you don't have as much experience in RWD cars... sure FWD is easier especially when there are traction issues... but a RWD will go faster and waste less power... plus like you said... if you know how to drive it it'll WASTE a FWD car with IDENTICAL everything else... My dad's porsche could spin'em in any gear below 4 especially around a corner... that doesn't mean that I couldn't accelerate through a corner in it WAY faster then my no traction loss sentra or civic and not because of power... or suspension because over steer is A LOT easier to get aggressive with then understeer is... I'll take my ass swinging out a little over pushing into a guardrail or woods anyday. PLUS... my whole statement was that if you want that kind of power you should go AWD... it's just better... nothing like flooring it through a 90 degree bend and just having to hold onto your seat. I know you CAN do it w/o.. I know it's done w/o... but it would be better done with. I just think this is silly it's BEYOND obvious that opak has NO money and these are just dreams... he's been repeatadly asked for a budget but he doesn't reply... I never said civics' or hondas' were somehow incapable of speed or anything like that... what I said was that if your going to start off new... with an un modded car... then get a better platform... Not only will you not be another D-bag with a honda (regardless of how fast it is or isn't) but you'll have a car that's more geared towards your goals and more capable of handling those goals once attained... Be different. don't just hop on a bandwagon.. I got a civic cuz I wrecked my old car and NEEDED a new one and couldn't find another sentra... this civic was down the street for sale and it had all the bs I didn't have on my sentra (power everything and a sunroof). That car (sentra) was a 1.6 and HEAVELY modded.. it'd burn stock ser's on the highway (happened once or twice) and it was only a 1.6... HOWEVER it had DOHC instead of this SOHC bs... it had a timing chain instead of this belt bs... and it was WAY faster then my civic, probobly not so, stock; but it was a MUCH better car imo. And just as capable of swaps... only better ones like sr20det... or just turbo a sr20de... or build the 1.6 more... it was a rager... way stronger smoother and more reliable than my civic. He can put 40k into a short bus for all I care.. I was just trying to help the uninformed kid out of making a mistake that once he does know all the stuff he wishes he did now he'll regret... OOPS I jumped on the honda bandwagon instead of learning about cars and choosing the best or at least a better one to mod. I love my honda... I like SOME other honda's (like your lude chris) but if I was planning on dumping 10k+ into a car there is NO WAY IN HELL IT WOULD BE A HONDA.... FOR GOOD GOOD REASON. they're just not a very good track or autocross project car... unless your goal is to get kudos from other honda owners... then it's great. The benifit to them is the amount of information out there on them and cost of parts (which aren't really much cheaper than other cars you just have more opportunities to get group buys and clearance stuff.)
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04-22-2003, 06:07 PM
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#53 |
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^yupyup, basically what my seriously thread says
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yeah, its that big |
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04-22-2003, 06:20 PM
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#54 |
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Posts: n/a
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OPAK TELL ME YOUR BUDGET RIGHT NOW! OR ELSE!
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04-22-2003, 06:34 PM
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#55 |
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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like, infinite man, because like I don't have to pay for anything and I got a sweet $6/hour job
 haha jwfy really, if you set a realistic budget on how much you can intially spend on the car and how much you plan on spending in the future, we could all help a lot more...
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yeah, its that big |
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04-22-2003, 07:21 PM
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#56 |
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Posts: n/a
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f*ck all the b*tching.
no one knows the answer to my question?! |
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04-22-2003, 07:30 PM
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#57 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Az
Age: 44
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D17A1 Honda Civic DX/LX
D17A2 Honda Civic EX |
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04-22-2003, 07:54 PM
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#58 |
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Posts: n/a
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ok, thanks.
are those the lowest engines available for honda's? what's the best? |
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04-22-2003, 07:59 PM
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#59 | |
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Posts: n/a
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Quote:
I dunno, I plan on the car taking more that 1 year...my budget is however much it takes to finish the car, lol. Lets see, lets set it at 15k(that includes the b18c1 full swap) |
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04-22-2003, 08:36 PM
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#60 |
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Posts: n/a
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and your going to be doing all of this on your 96 EX......or are you still getting a hatch or whatever the hell's churning in your head?
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04-22-2003, 10:32 PM
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#61 | |
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Posts: n/a
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Quote:
Hey listen, don't be a B*tch...be nice. Yes, i'm still using my 96' EX. |
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04-22-2003, 11:45 PM
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#62 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 48
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what's your budget doesn't mean make up a number.. it means HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU HAVE TO SPEND RIGHT NOW... because if you don't have at least 6k to START with your out...
the swap a b18c1 will cost you like 3k to be generous... your "sponsor" should only charge you 1k to put it in... that's not including all the BS that comes up... which will add up to another 500 AT LEAST... that's without modding that engine AT ALL... or doing good motor mounts while the engine is out or putting in a better radiator to keep the bigger motor cool (stocks will work ok). Then expect at least another 6k to get it turboed... then comes snapped axels... the ones that don't snap and can get you down a track w/o worries are only like 250-450 a piece. If your LUCKY the guys who you trust to tune YOUR motor don't blow it in the process or tune it so you blow it... then you get tired of that and decide to rip open the block and start building it... if you want to do that right that's gunna just keep adding up and adding up... 5-10k in parts and 500-2k in labor... now your car's just plain undrivable on the street... you give up get another car to drive daily and start using that as a track car... but now it sits too much doesn't run enough.. when it does it gets run too hard... shit breaks all the time... I'm just saying your getting into a life style that will UTTERLY CONSUME EVERY PENNY YOU HAVE for EVER or until you realize you made a BIG mistake starting with a civic... Just one of many possible senarious... but that's the one I hear and see most often. I don't know any Professional racers do you?
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04-22-2003, 11:50 PM
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#63 |
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Posts: n/a
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I'm saving up for the engine right now.
Spoon is sending over a driver from Japan to run OPAKraing's new RSX type R that spoon built for them in the quarter...they're running it this week, we'll see how it does i'll keep ya guys updated. ...speaking of race car drivers...lol |
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04-23-2003, 12:04 AM
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#64 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Age: 48
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I meant know as in grew up with... IE I KNOW about 50-100 people who moderately to HEAVILY mod and race their cars... many have dumped over 20k into whatever platform they were working with... YES some of them have won races and I believe one of them took first for the season in his class... however none are getting much if anything for free and some are penniless because of there obsession with this stuff.
Don't buy a spoon engine dude... it's way too f&f especially if your planning or even contemplating going turbo later... the difference between your stock motor and a b18c1 will be NIGHT AND DAY... you will have a fast car... you'll be burning lots of dudes out there who have spent lots of money... the name is not worth the price especially if that's not where your going to stop...
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04-23-2003, 12:23 AM
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#65 |
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Like i said in the beginning keep your D16y8, have it rebuilt to handle boost $2500 or so. Put it in yourself, buy all the turbo ish $3000-$4000. Put that in yourself. Tune it 200-300$. Stomp on most cars on the street.
One of the main reasons Honda's are not such good platforms to start off with is because everyone thinks they need to swap out their engine, which costs 3000-5000$ just for a beat down engine from someone elses car. |
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04-23-2003, 07:18 AM
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#66 |
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Project Combat Honda
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Highland,OH
Age: 46
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Fock, this thread is never going to end..
Opak, you need to atleast find a starting point and work from there. If you have technical question, we will be more then happy to help. But atleast make you mind up on something.
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Racing Rice |
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04-23-2003, 08:06 AM
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#67 |
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I VERY much agree with AZCivic...
Your best bet is to stick with the stock engine... get a turbo KIT.. fmax it's like 3500 bucks see if hondamaniac can get you a better price... go buy the turbo tuning book gt40fied recomended in another thread... the name slips my mind but if you want I'll look it up later... When your DONE reading the book and the instructions for the kit 15 times install it... see if you can get someone who knows what they're doing to supervise (really just supervise though) this will not only teach you TONS of stuff about engines and tuning but chances are with 3-4 mods on that kit you could be running 12-13's on slicks with some stuff taken out of your car NO PROBLEM.. that's fast dude... and it IS street power because the turbo power ramps up so as long as you don't launch at 4k you don't really spin the wheels... and you'll get used to not having to "floor" it all the time. This would yield FANTASTIC results... even without a costly engine build... after your tired of that and you have more money saved up you can make a WAY more educated decision about what you want to do from there... If you really want a rediculous street honda you gotta start off more realistic... learn about tuning YOURSELF. Many of the your not going to have a fast civic comments I said where more at the track fast... if you turbo your d16 you COULD be WASTING dudes with swaps, nitros, and MUCH better stock cars... like maxima's and 3 series bmw's... that's fast... and since you have suspension already it'll be tight as hell... you didn't answer the brake Q though... do you have rear disk??? I think it's standard for you but I don't know. If you do this instead of save up for a spoon engine you will be thanking us till the day you die.
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04-23-2003, 06:27 PM
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#68 | |
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Posts: n/a
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Quote:
yea ok, but it'd be better to start off with a b18c1 anyways...so why doj't i jsut get my b18c1, and burn guys N/A, while i'm savin up for my turbo kit....sounds good to me [quote]Originally posted by nonovurbizniz Don't buy a spoon engine dude... it's way too f&f especially if your planning or even contemplating going turbo later... the difference between your stock motor and a b18c1 will be NIGHT AND DAY... you will have a fast car... you'll be burning lots of dudes out there who have spent lots of money... the name is not worth the price especially if that's not where your going to stop...[quote] |
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04-23-2003, 09:57 PM
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#69 |
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the turbo kit on a d16 would probobly beat a b18c1 swap... they've got like 180 crank hp at MOST...
A well tuned d series turbo will have 175-200 whp.. and be cheaper. if you want to start with a b18 then go ahead but do it yourself with supervision.. you'll save money and learn a lot.
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04-23-2003, 10:16 PM
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#70 |
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Well, its just that i'd get more out of the b18 in the long run..IT IS a bigger motor when alls said and done. It just makes sense that it would have more potential.
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04-23-2003, 10:55 PM
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#71 | |
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Quote:
When you get the d engine rebuilt you have the option of having it bored out to just under a 1.8ltr. So the difference in displacement doesnt really matter much. |
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04-23-2003, 11:03 PM
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#72 |
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I wouldn't recomend stroking the motor to 1.8... and if your serious about boring out a d series motor... uhh you need help.. they already have REDICULOUSLY thin cyl. walls. you wouldn't want to bore that down at ALL.
plus your still stuck with the sohc instead of dohc which can make a pretty good difference if it's tuned properly. If your definately going to swap down the road then sure get a b now.. there are more options and configurations... (ie head/piston/valve/spring swaps which are all stock parts.) But you'd learn a lot more from turboing your d and you wouldn't be risking blowing a pricey motor.
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04-23-2003, 11:08 PM
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#73 | |
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Quote:
Thats why you get the block RESLEEVED, sorry i didnt point this out but by rebuilt i meant that aswell. Well as we can see from the "fastest all-motor civic" debate, the extra cam isnt really helping out all that much. Since bisi was able to beat the DOHC record(for a short time) with a SOHC. There are alot of options when it comes to the d engine as well, you even gave an example with the GX pistons in the other thread. Plus all the parts are cheaper with the d. |
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04-24-2003, 08:14 AM
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#74 |
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I do agree with sticking with the cheaper platform...
and as long as you keep within the bounds of reality boring and stroking aren't terrible at all. Sleeved 1.8 would be fine... I think jun makes a stroker kit for the 1.6 that makes it 1.8 or even 2.0 but that might be for the B16.
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