Convince me not to do this!!!!!

[cashizslick]

Project Stang y0


Guys, i need some convincing.

All my friends have fricken mustangs and they run low 14's high 13's with I/E/H and 373 gears.

I am seriously thinking of getting a 89 Notchback for $2k and dumping 2k more $ into it and having a quick car.

What do you think????

[blind34_1]

why do you not want to do this? It looks like you've already got a quick honda, why not start another project? You'd make some impressive power (I'm assuming you're talking about a 5.0 v8). It's not every day you see someone with a modded stang and civic in their garage.

Oh...but you wanted to be unconvinced....ok: don't do that, its just another black hole for money. Why do you want to do what all of your friends are doing? Why not work a little more on the car you've got? you could put it into 13's with some work.

[Wren57]

2k car + 2k mods = quick car... OR turbo that biatch:yes:

[Kyle]

i say go for it man!
it's be a fun project...plus you'd see what goes on on the "dark side"

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by Kyle
i say go for it man!
it's be a fun project...plus you'd see what goes on on the "dark side"

Mustang is the easiest car in the world to make fast.. 5/0 that is. With 2k NA you can run high 12s prob. Add a blower to that and you have 11s. A 14 second 5.0 is slow. 13 second is standard.

[GT40FIED]

I'm with these guys. Fox bodied ('79-'93) Mustangs became popular with enthusiasts for one reason...they're insanely easy to mod and they respond very well to those mods. With $2K you could very well be running high 12s with the right parts...it's all a matter of knowing what to mod. An '89 notch would respond VERY well to exhaust, an intake, cam, and heads. Depending on who's doing the work that's around $2K in parts. Plus you'll find that Mustangs have an insane aftermarket. Everything from billet interior pieces to twin turbo kits. I remember seeing notchbacks with bone stock motors and modded suspensions running super high 12s (like 12.9s). Hell...3.73 gears alone are worth around .3-.5 seconds in the 1/4 vs. stock.

But then again...reasons not to do it...it's not a Honda so if you don't know domestics someone else will probably have to do the work. Also beware that it'll be much easier to work on since you've got more space...that's always a problem. Oh, and if you turbo it you'll have to deal with the insane power it makes. Other than that you should be fine.

[pdiggitydogg]

turbo the b16
you'll have way more fun with that...

neck snapping torque is only so much fun imo...boost is way more addictive

[ebpda9]

we all know a civic with intake exhaust clear corners and altezzas is the shiat ;) add an offensive body kit to it and yuou have the fastest car on the planet. spoiler is mandatory :rolleyes: jfwy

but seriously that would be a fun project to do, plus mustangs have a lot more hidden power

[MAXed Out]

I would go for the stang bro. But not neglect the civic :). I think it would be a fun project and it's always fun to try something new.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
turbo the b16
you'll have way more fun with that...

neck snapping torque is only so much fun imo...boost is way more addictive

Take the stang, with a nice intake.. cobra or above, larger throttle body, injectors, alum heads, headers, CAI and you have 12s easy. Add a turbo or sc and you will have 11s maybe 10s depending. Mustangs are actually one of the few cars you can get into 10s without nitrous, and still have it driveable. Even have heard of 9-8 second "streetable" ones.

[Racing Rice]

Civic or Stang... Screw the civic...Take the stang! RWD Rawks!:flick:

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
turbo the b16
you'll have way more fun with that...

neck snapping torque is only so much fun imo...boost is way more addictive

I'm with V8 on this...plus I fail to see how a B16 would be a lot more fun than an engine with twice the power in half the mods. As for neck snapping torque vs. boost...can't it be both? I took a bunch of years and slowly built the car up...that's the way you've gotta do a Mustang. Start slow...take part of that $2K and buy an intake and headers, a 2 1/2" H-pipe, and some mufflers (I like the Dynomax Super Turbos for sound and price, but if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket Bassanni and Borla make amazing mufflers) and then just wait for a while and get a feel for the car while you save some more money. Also, many shops like exhaust places can be bargained with. I had my whole exhaust system (1 5/8" headers, 2 1/2" H-pipe, and mufflers) installed and welded up for a little over $100 and a case of beer. This won't work at Midas...but a lot of the out-of-the-way independent shops are cool like that. When the engine was being built I had a friend who worked at Krispy Kream. I'd stop in every morning to see how everything was going and I'd take the guys donuts and they gave me a bit of a price break just for that. Lastly, know what you want as an end result. I started with an idea in my head about 4 years ago and slowly worked up to it. Now I can run low 10s on street tires, drive the car every day if I want to, and I still get that turbo sound. Show me a Civic that'll do that.

[AzCivic]

take the 4 grand your gonna blow on a mustang which is assuming theres no work that needs to be done to get it up to par, big assumption imo. anyway take the 4 grand and turbo the b16 and make at the very least 250-300wheel hp which is good for low ass 12's even high 11's.

instead of having a beat down mustang running high 13's.

[pdiggitydogg]

^thats my point
I just forgot to say it [whoops]

[guywithastang]

If you can take 4 grand and make 300 hp on a honda I will eat my hat . a turbo dosen't create 100% hp increase. sorry to burst that bubble:rolleyes: I have never had a problem beating a turbo civic. Had a turbo integra keep up with me once. and this is with my "slow" 98 gt.

[ChrisCantSkate]

anyone have any pics of clean looking fox bodys... every "fast" one ive seen was torn to shit on the outside or track bound(stickers and other stuff not intented for street cars) im considering this, and well... how good the car can look has a huge huge influence over what i pick.

[guywithastang]

Pick up an issue of 5.0 or muscle mustangs. I no longer have a computer at home so I cant help with the pics:no:

[pdiggitydogg]

Originally posted by guywithastang
If you can take 4 grand and make 300 hp on a honda I will eat my hat .

Yes, but who really needs a 300hp fwd car?
It wouldnt be that hard w/ an h22 or maybe b20

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
anyone have any pics of clean looking fox bodys... every "fast" one ive seen was torn to shit on the outside or track bound(stickers and other stuff not intented for street cars) im considering this, and well... how good the car can look has a huge huge influence over what i pick.

The pics aren't too great...taken on a shitty disposable camera and scanned on a crappy scanner...but here's basically what my "4 eyed" (4 headlights...pre-87) Mustang looked like as of around 1 1/2 years ago.

http://members.cox.net/sheininger/ExteriorPassSide.jpg

http://members.cox.net/sheininger/MustangPassSide.jpg

Keep in mind I'm not big on exterior mods...the only changes to the outside were the wheels and the Cobra spoiler (which wouldn't be there had a guy not dinged my car in a parking lot and cracked the original spoiler). Coming next....lake pipes!

[guywithastang]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
Yes, but who really needs a 300hp fwd car?
It wouldnt be that hard w/ an h22 or maybe b20

True, but then you have blown your budget on an engine swap. Plus a custom turbo system costs more than a prefab.

[pdiggitydogg]

but he already spent the money on the swap...so it isnt a factor in his case
a custom turbo could be built less than a kit...very possible

[guywithastang]

I thought cashiz's car had a b16? Or are we talkin Chris' lude?:confused:

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by guywithastang
If you can take 4 grand and make 300 hp on a honda I will eat my hat . a turbo dosen't create 100% hp increase. sorry to burst that bubble:rolleyes: I have never had a problem beating a turbo civic. Had a turbo integra keep up with me once. and this is with my "slow" 98 gt.

are you hungry? how can you say a turbo doesnt create a 100% increase in hp!?

[pdiggitydogg]

we're talking either one i guess...but i actually meant the b16
It would be easy to make 300hp (yet easier to use a b18 or b20)

I could even show you video of b20's in the low 13's and high 12's

[GT40FIED]

A turbo will only double power numbers if the pressure reaching the engine is 14.7psi and assuming good adiabatic efficiency. Not many of the kits I see for Hondas are built to run more than 8 or 9psi...but then again I haven't looked too hard. I don't see your run of the mill basic kit doubling the hp of any of those engines. Even some of the better street turbo kits out there for V8s won't do that. You're looking at somewhere between 60%-80% power gain. So you could spend $3K+ on a 300hp turbo'ed Civic or a few hundred on a 300hp N/A V8 that has a LOT more potential for power.

[guywithastang]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
we're talking either one i guess...but i actually meant the b16
It would be easy to make 300hp (yet easier to use a b18 or b20)

I could even show you video of b20's in the low 13's and high 12's



I do not doubt you one bit, but I think the idea is potential and cost effectiveness. Remember, the mustang started the high performance fuel injection movement. Thats got to be good for something.


I also meant to say a turbo alone does not increase hp 100%. If you try you tend to get a little oil on the track:)

[pdiggitydogg]

the kits that say 8-9psi are meant for stock engines, probably not even intercooled
Just for example, the edelbrock civic kit (t28) maxes out @ 20psi (1.4 bar)
anyway thats 283hp ON A D16 (http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=5173)

the greddy kit for the d16y8 is good "up to 300Whp" but we all know manufacturers like greddy (trustworthy) are going to downplay the actual numbers

Its easy to get 300hp


oh and Im not dissing mustangs...Im more mature than that. My absolute favorite old school muscle car is the mid60's fastback...meaning I like the new 05 GT too :yes:

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
the greddy kit for the d16y8 is good "up to 300Whp" but we all know manufacturers like greddy (trustworthy) are going to downplay the actual numbers

I think by "up to" they mean how much power the kit will support with other mods if it's maxed out. There's no possible way for a turbo of that size to produce a 263% power improvement without running insane (and by insane I mean impossible) psi. If it could push more cfm and slightly lowered the psi then maybe...but then the engine probably wouldn't spool a turbo that big. I've got a friend that's running a Procharger D-1R blower on his '86 Capri w/ an injected 389...now Procharger lists the hp capabilities of the D-1R at 1200hp. Does that mean the Capri is making 1200hp? Nooooo...more like 800hp or so. It's all advertising hyperbole.

[Shaved &/or Laid]

my fatehr comands a soy farm ^_^

[cashizslick]

..................................

[guywithastang]

I am just glad you didnt say camaro:pukey

[GT40FIED]

^^I wanted to say that, but I didn't wanna be "that" guy. Hmmm...Camaro...who makes that? Can't seem to find a price for an '04 model. Hehe

[pdiggitydogg]

agreed

No,of course i wasnt saying that 300 doesnt come without other crap (a whole lot in that case). Just pointing it out.
Again it just goes back to no one needing (or wanting) a street fwd car w/ 300hp
200 is juuuuust fine

My issue on anything is always going to be cost related
"Does the price justify the means?"
He already has a really nice starting block and the car doesnt seem to have cancer so why not spend the money on the civic and make it fast, rather than buy an entire vehicle, spend money on fixing it first and THEN making it fast?

Cost for cost really outweighs power for power IMHO

EDIT**Just a little side note about GM. A good friend of the family is a GM corporate executive (how high? he gets up to 4 new cars per month and doesnt pay a dime...even tax). Once, when he got piss drunk, he told me that he was glad I didnt drive a GM POS..."Those bastards design the engine wiring harness to only last 5 F**king yrs...Don't ever get a gm car outside of lease"
Interesting little tidbit, eh?

[ChrisCantSkate]

to get my car to ~280 fwhp i'd need at least 3500..... then i might run 12's :rolleyes:

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
to get my car to ~280 fwhp i'd need at least 3500..... then i might run 12's :rolleyes:

And then the CV joints grenade. Lol...j/k

I understand what yer sayin Pdigs...Why buy another car when you've already got one you can mod, right? I can respect that but a Mustang and a Civic are two different beasts. I've driven a few heavily modified Hondas (I/E/H/turbo/electronics) and, while they're quick and kind of fun to drive, none of them have compared to the brute power of even a decently modifed N/A V8, let alone a car like mine. Honestly though, if I had to buy another car right now (damnit I hate my Slownoma), I'd do the opposite of what Cash is talking about. Keep the death machine (the 'Stang) and buy a Civic or Accord as a beater. *sigh*...hindsight is such a b!tch.

[pdiggitydogg]

Oh for sure man...Ive driven super torque-y mustangs that threw my entire body into the back seat
It was a lot of fun!
But...and maybe its just personal preference...I like driving my honda better
Plus its cheaper (now....)

[cashizslick]

Ya, but RWD tire melting is where its at y0!

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by cashizslick
Ya, but RWD tire melting is where its at y0!

Damn, straight brotha!:yes: My hondas the perfect daily driver... but man it would be so nice to have a RWD tire shredding V8 when I feel rowdy.;)

But then again.. Thats personal preference.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by Racing Rice
Damn, straight brotha!:yes: My hondas the perfect daily driver... but man it would be so nice to have a RWD tire shredding V8 when I feel rowdy.;)

But then again.. Thats personal preference.

Actually I believe it's proven fact. :thumbsup:

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by Racing Rice
Damn, straight brotha!:yes: My hondas the perfect daily driver... but man it would be so nice to have a RWD tire shredding V8 when I feel rowdy.;)

But then again.. Thats personal preference.



X-Actly :yes:

[Shaved &/or Laid]

i just dont like the feel of american cars to be honest. cant explain why.

[guywithastang]

Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
i just dont like the feel of american cars to be honest. cant explain why.



Too much tourqe? ;)

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by guywithastang
Too much tourqe? ;)

bwahaha... Thats wrong... Funny, but wrong...;) :yes:

[GT40FIED]

I think the bottom line is such: Some Hondas and domestics make great cars, but all the Hondas I've ever been in have lacked the one thing that makes driving fun...torque. A car could handle like it was on rails but it's still going to lack that fun element if it can't catapult you out of the corner. Like the modded Hondas I mentioned earlier...they had decent mid range and the handling was a little numb but still decent, but they were missing that kick in your ass off the line that kept pulling until you shifted. Sorry...I just like to feel like I've got a rocket strapped to my ass when I floor it...I don't think a street driven Honda could give me that.

[Kyle]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
I think the bottom line is such: Some Hondas and domestics make great cars, but all the Hondas I've ever been in have lacked the one thing that makes driving fun...torque. A car could handle like it was on rails but it's still going to lack that fun element if it can't catapult you out of the corner. Like the modded Hondas I mentioned earlier...they had decent mid range and the handling was a little numb but still decent, but they were missing that kick in your ass off the line that kept pulling until you shifted. Sorry...I just like to feel like I've got a rocket strapped to my ass when I floor it...I don't think a street driven Honda could give me that.
nicely put.
if you're still thinking this one thru cash, i say go for it.

[nonovurbizniz]

either car could be made to make you happy...

That's really all there is to it... unless donuts and fishtailing are a required part of your idea of fun then EITHER a honda or a mustang could be made to handle an F1 and accelerate like a rocket...

The only true disadvantage IS for the FWD car as it won't get as good traction... so if it does get built to have nasty torque... it will essentially make the car worse.

That's my favorite part about RWD... the feeling of the whole car slamming all it's weight and power directly onto the rear wheels and GOING...

My dad's porsche 911 used to launch SOOO nice... I could get the wheels to spin without kicking it sideways a little.

Overall If you want a low cost fast/fun car I'd say get a stang ...

It's better to have an extra car in case one is down or you want to put it up to do something to it... insurance might ruin this whole debate for you though.

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by Kyle
nicely put.
if you're still thinking this one thru cash, i say go for it.

Oh im still here, im just reading the arguments.

On one hand though, it could be nice to turbo the civ, but a mustang would be so fun!