.:HSTuners::

10-22-2002, 04:53 PM

Ok, I have a 600 watt kenwood amp with 2 12in MTX thunder 5000's. My system sounds good, but Not as good as my buddies.

He has 2 10in Kicker solobaracs with a 350 watt kicker amp.

I know that watts are power, and that my amp puts out almost 2 times as much power as my buddies.

But why does his bump so much lowder and cleaner??

Thanks for your advice, as i know nothing about electronics.

10-22-2002, 05:19 PM

the real reason, is because he's using kicker and your using kenwood. kenwood's amp suck. if you buy a boss 1000 watt amp, my JL 500 watt amp will blow it outta the water. Also remember, a box/enclosure changes alot too

a96710 · 10-22-2002, 06:03 PM

I am also sure that the Kenwood 600 watt stat is max power not continuos. When your amp is peakin out and puttin out it's max power it's gonna put out distorted power. The way the subs are wired also will have an effect on impedance and that 350 watt amp could be puttin out more

Rob · 10-22-2002, 07:42 PM

Is your amp 600 watts RMS or 600 peak?? If it's 600 watts peak, then it may only really be putting out 300 RMS...and true, unless you have the Excelon series Kenwood amp, your amp isn't the best of quality.

Also, you're probably running less power to 2 12's then you're buddy is to 2 10's which is also a factor in the difference in sound between your system and his....

One finally note, the Kicker Solarbarics have a higher SPL than the MTXs do (I think). SPL in a nut shell is the speaker's ability to perform based on the amount of wattage you feed it. The higher the SPL, the better.

2ndGenTeg · 10-22-2002, 09:24 PM

It's probably a combination of things.

The lower end Kenwood stuff is rated at a max ouput. This is usually taken at a fairly high THD in order to make small numbers look bigger- similar to how auto manufacturers rate power output at the crank, not the wheels. I have seen the birth certificates- a 600 watt Kenwood amp with a birth certificate saying 632 watts. My Kicker amps, on the other hand, have impressive birth certificates. My ZR360s have birth certificates showing output at 552 and 584 watts, out of an amp rated at 360 watts. My ZX460 shows output of 52 watts per channel (rated at 30), all taken at relatively low THD. Why do they do this? The Kenwood amp is rated high to impress consumers with higher numbers, and the Kicker amps are rated low so they can compete in a lower power class. I'd put a Kicker Resolution amp toe to toe with any Kenwood amp (Excelon included) rated at twice the output anyday.

Also, he may be running a lower impedence than you are. If you're running at 4 ohms, your potential output drops to 300 watts, max, and probably around 150 max rms. Check your wiring, and see if it can be redone to a lower impedence still within the amp's tolerances.

Finally, displacement. The cone area of the two subs is very close- 100 sq in for the 10" L5, compared to 113 sq in for just about any 12" round sub. The difference is that the L5 has more linear travel, displacing more air. Think about it like a car: the cone area is the bore, the stroke is the linear travel. The L5 has a higher displacement, which makes it louder.

Also consider other variables like box design, vehicle characteristics, etc.

10-23-2002, 08:53 AM

Hey, thanks alot. I never really understood how all this worked untill you guys told me.

My amp puts out max power at 600 watts, and 300 watts RMS.

My box is a sealled enclosure.

. . . . .thats all i could fugure out. Thanks for the info

ShagginJet · 11-01-2002, 02:06 PM

Try this, you'll probably blow the amp but it'll be fun till your car catches on fire. Instead of running the wires of the subs into independent channels onthe amp, run the amp like you only have one speaker. You should see on the amp where you connect the speaker wires, it'll have the +'s and -'s for normal two chanel and then it should have the -'s and +'s for bridging the amp. So... take the two +'s fromt he subs, and connect them both to the bridge + on the amp, then take the two -'s from the subs and connect them both to the bridge - of the amp. This shows your amp a 1 ohm load which most amps can't handle, it increases the output of the amp by almost 2.5x's and should offer some killer power.

When running amps at 1ohm it's very important to keep them cool. If you don't have an exhaust fan, you should jimmy rig atleast one of them up to cool the amp, this should work.

YOU MAY BLOW THE AMP, BE CAREFULL!!!....

I can always sell you an awesome rockford amp if you blow this one... but you're doing this at your own risk and i accept no resposibility.... have fun.

Rob · 11-01-2002, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ShagginJet
I can always sell you an awesome rockford amp if you blow this one...

Hey Shaggin, what kind do you have (RMS power/series) and how much?.....PM please.

2ndGenTeg · 11-02-2002, 01:46 AM

Wire an amp down to one ohm that isn't rated for it? Are you serious? Why don't you just ground it to its own chassis? If you're that deperate to toast an amp, that will be a lot more efficient. If it didn't fry right away, you'd have to keep an ice pack on it and turn the gains down so low it would be useless.

Don't do that. If you have two 4 ohm subs or two 8 ohm DVC subs, they can be wired down to 2 ohms. Your amp may only be stable down to 4 ohm mono, though, as many amps are. In that case, you need one of the following to get maximum efficiency: two 2 ohm subs, two 4 ohm DVC subs, or two 8 ohm subs.

a96710 · 11-02-2002, 02:33 AM

I just thought of another thing also...the MTX's efficiency rating is also probably lower than the Solo Barics.

10-22-2002, 04:53 PM	#1
cashizslick Posts: n/a	Whats the deal with Whatts??? Ok, I have a 600 watt kenwood amp with 2 12in MTX thunder 5000's. My system sounds good, but Not as good as my buddies. He has 2 10in Kicker solobaracs with a 350 watt kicker amp. I know that watts are power, and that my amp puts out almost 2 times as much power as my buddies. But why does his bump so much lowder and cleaner?? Thanks for your advice, as i know nothing about electronics.

11-01-2002, 02:06 PM	#7
ShagginJet Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,584	Try this, you'll probably blow the amp but it'll be fun till your car catches on fire. Instead of running the wires of the subs into independent channels onthe amp, run the amp like you only have one speaker. You should see on the amp where you connect the speaker wires, it'll have the +'s and -'s for normal two chanel and then it should have the -'s and +'s for bridging the amp. So... take the two +'s fromt he subs, and connect them both to the bridge + on the amp, then take the two -'s from the subs and connect them both to the bridge - of the amp. This shows your amp a 1 ohm load which most amps can't handle, it increases the output of the amp by almost 2.5x's and should offer some killer power. When running amps at 1ohm it's very important to keep them cool. If you don't have an exhaust fan, you should jimmy rig atleast one of them up to cool the amp, this should work. YOU MAY BLOW THE AMP, BE CAREFULL!!!.... I can always sell you an awesome rockford amp if you blow this one... but you're doing this at your own risk and i accept no resposibility.... have fun. __________________ RECENTLY UPDATED!!! 5-20-04 http://63.249.135.19/hdrive/car/index.htm

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10-22-2002, 05:19 PM	#2
BrandonClaps Posts: n/a	the real reason, is because he's using kicker and your using kenwood. kenwood's amp suck. if you buy a boss 1000 watt amp, my JL 500 watt amp will blow it outta the water. Also remember, a box/enclosure changes alot too

10-22-2002, 06:03 PM	#3
a96710 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver, Wa Age: 43 Posts: 1,454	I am also sure that the Kenwood 600 watt stat is max power not continuos. When your amp is peakin out and puttin out it's max power it's gonna put out distorted power. The way the subs are wired also will have an effect on impedance and that 350 watt amp could be puttin out more

10-22-2002, 09:24 PM	#5
2ndGenTeg 4th Gear Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Boulder, CO Age: 43 Posts: 830	It's probably a combination of things. The lower end Kenwood stuff is rated at a max ouput. This is usually taken at a fairly high THD in order to make small numbers look bigger- similar to how auto manufacturers rate power output at the crank, not the wheels. I have seen the birth certificates- a 600 watt Kenwood amp with a birth certificate saying 632 watts. My Kicker amps, on the other hand, have impressive birth certificates. My ZR360s have birth certificates showing output at 552 and 584 watts, out of an amp rated at 360 watts. My ZX460 shows output of 52 watts per channel (rated at 30), all taken at relatively low THD. Why do they do this? The Kenwood amp is rated high to impress consumers with higher numbers, and the Kicker amps are rated low so they can compete in a lower power class. I'd put a Kicker Resolution amp toe to toe with any Kenwood amp (Excelon included) rated at twice the output anyday. Also, he may be running a lower impedence than you are. If you're running at 4 ohms, your potential output drops to 300 watts, max, and probably around 150 max rms. Check your wiring, and see if it can be redone to a lower impedence still within the amp's tolerances. Finally, displacement. The cone area of the two subs is very close- 100 sq in for the 10" L5, compared to 113 sq in for just about any 12" round sub. The difference is that the L5 has more linear travel, displacing more air. Think about it like a car: the cone area is the bore, the stroke is the linear travel. The L5 has a higher displacement, which makes it louder. Also consider other variables like box design, vehicle characteristics, etc.

10-23-2002, 08:53 AM	#6
cashizslick Posts: n/a	Hey, thanks alot. I never really understood how all this worked untill you guys told me. My amp puts out max power at 600 watts, and 300 watts RMS. My box is a sealled enclosure. . . . . .thats all i could fugure out. Thanks for the info

11-02-2002, 01:46 AM	#9
2ndGenTeg 4th Gear Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Boulder, CO Age: 43 Posts: 830	Wire an amp down to one ohm that isn't rated for it? Are you serious? Why don't you just ground it to its own chassis? If you're that deperate to toast an amp, that will be a lot more efficient. If it didn't fry right away, you'd have to keep an ice pack on it and turn the gains down so low it would be useless. Don't do that. If you have two 4 ohm subs or two 8 ohm DVC subs, they can be wired down to 2 ohms. Your amp may only be stable down to 4 ohm mono, though, as many amps are. In that case, you need one of the following to get maximum efficiency: two 2 ohm subs, two 4 ohm DVC subs, or two 8 ohm subs.

11-02-2002, 02:33 AM	#10
a96710 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver, Wa Age: 43 Posts: 1,454	I just thought of another thing also...the MTX's efficiency rating is also probably lower than the Solo Barics.