How does this sound to you

[ebpda9]

well my brother got kind of crazy with his music system, and he got all the crap to have installed.

he has a pioneer deh-225 head unit (old, broken and i fixed it up)
2 15" Rockford fostgate Punch Classic (what is the max power on those) ? a box with the transparent plexiglass (sp???) in front of the speakers, a kenwwod amp rated 600W, and finally 2 12" subs (crusher i think). what do u think about this ?

first off... pioneer deck aint bad...
fosgate punch classics don't hold much power at all. even the 15's. id say something like 4-500 max 200-250 rms. and don't turn it up too loud or it'll distort and with those... you could blow them easy.
kenwood amp is alright. and what's this? 4 total subs?? wtf?

sounds like a pretty ghetto setup. unless everything together minus the amp (cause its a decent amp)for under 100 i'd say he got ripped big time. and don't try to get that installed by pro's. it just ain't worth it.

[ebpda9]

well the kenwood amp is 100. and the install i'm gonna do it myself. i wish i had the crap from my old subaru. it sounded really good with it. maybe i'm gonna keep the 12"s and put an amplif to go with it.

[Accord Man]

if its in a decent condition, it should sound pretty good..

[black95gs-t]

if you think that kenwood will really push 600 watts you are sadly mistaken.

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by black95gs-t
if you think that kenwood will really push 600 watts you are sadly mistaken.

that's what says on the amp.

[black95gs-t]

i know thats what it says on the amp. but what i'm saying is that i've sold those and i have never seen one get to 600 watts. and i had the thing at 1 ohm and it still wouldn't do it. i know its only a 2 ohm amp, but i had to find out if it would do it. and much to my dismay it did not.

[ebpda9]

well how muck do u think it will push ? i do not want more than 200 per channel

[black95gs-t]

well that depends on the ohm load of the speakers. are you planning on running your bass in stereo? you would get more power out of the amp if you ran it mono.

[Accord Man]

if the its the one that I'm thinking about it has a big "600" on it..
Well its actually a 200w rms amp, and thats while running it mono...

[ebpda9]

yeah it has a big 600 on it

600 is max power bridged...

really its about 150x2 i betcha. (4ohm, RMS)

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by Maxvla
600 is max power bridged...

really its about 150x2 i betcha. (4ohm, RMS)

shouldn't it be like 300x2. ohhh well my bros spekers are 8 ohms so i guess i will have 75wx2

funny thing about amps when you bridge its like doubling and then another half the total power... one thing im not really learned up on.. jon you'll hafta explain this to me.

an amp that does 150x2 could easily be 600W max bridged... thats where most companies rate their amps... max bridged power. not really very accurate but whatever.
i don't know why its like this but hopefully jon will explain.

[black95gs-t]

well the rating ahs to do with the internal circuitry. there is no standard ohm load for all amps though. i know that you guys know that the majority of my posts are like 3 1/2 days long each. if you really want me to explain it, i will. but there is no short version that i can think of. it would basically be like an electronics/physics kinda class. i'll do it if you want. but let me know. and i do agree that that amp does have a big giant 600 on it. but if you ever get that out of it, well lets just say it will probably be smoking soon there after.

yes... i would like to hear the long drawn out reason the power ratings do what they do when you start playing around with multiple speakers and bridging... and all that bs.

i'd appreciate it... its really the biggest hole in my car stereo knowledge and thats cuz i don't work in that field or i'd prolly know.

[black95gs-t]

ok. man i was hoping you would say no. i'm kinda tired right now so i will start it now nad then fix and finish it tomorrow. here is my warning. WARNING!!!!!!!! i am extremly tired right now and i will fix what i get wrong tomorrow.!!!!!!!!! an ohm is the amount or resistance that an electrical charge experiences while flowing through a source. the lower the number, the lower the resistance. a lower number makes more power. generally most coax and component and pretty much all mid/high speakers are 4 ohm. there are a few exceptions like some of the OZ speakers which are 3 ohm. sub woofers are a different story. they generally range from 1 ohm to 12 ohms per voice coil. what does per voice coil mean? a voice coil is what the current flows over in the speaker and makes it move thus making sound. how do i use a voice coil? easy hook up your speaker wire carrying the current to the voice coil. how do i do that? there are little terminals on most speakers. wheater it is a push button style connecter or a spayde connecter, they are there. there is always 1 posative and 1 negative per voice coil. what is a DVC? DVC stands for Dual Voice Coil. basically it means that you have 2 voice coils on the speaker. What is a QVC? it is a shopping network. or, well, in speaker talk it is a quad voice coil. to figure your ohm load you first have to know which way you will be wiring them. there are three basic ways. series, parallel, and series and parallel at the same time. if you use a combination all speakers have to be done exactly the same way on every speaker. more info below. for every voice coil on the speaker there is a pair of terminals. if it is a DVC, there are 4 terminals. 2 pos and 2 neg. for a quad there are 8. 4 pos and 4 neg. check the terminals on the speaker before automatically assuming that the pos will be next to the neg. on some speakers the pos is next to the other pos. and the negs are next to each other. what are the advantages of using multiple voice coils? more wiring options. why are more wiring options better? How do i figure my ohm load? i will tell you further down. think of it like this. if a company made only 1 product, and they all fit different cars, like an intake only good on a 95 lamborghini diablo that is black, and it could not fit any other car, it would be very unmarketable because of its limited useablity. same kind of thing. if you buy a 4 ohm stable sub amp, that means that you can only bridge it down to 4 ohms, and then you go buy 3 12 ohm speakers, you will be running it at 4 ohms. if you want to get a new amp, you are limited to only 4 ohm stable amps. which there are not very many of. but if you had gotten say 3 DVC's which each had 2 ohm voice coils, you could wire the individual speakers in series, and then wire them together parallel. and that would give you 3 4 ohm speakers running at 4 ohms. with 3 DVC's with each individual vioce coils that are 2 ohms you can run total ohm loads of .33333 ohms, .66666666 ohms, 1 ohm, 2 ohms, 3 ohms, 4 ohms, 6 ohms, and 12 ohms. that is 8 different combinations. depending on your amp there could be a ninth. where 3 single voice coils can be run 3 different ways. 3 12 ohm SVC's can be run 4 ohms, 12 ohms, and 36 ohms. however only one of those is really useable. oh yeah, i forgot. how do i figure my ohm load? your speakers shold come with a manual giving you possible wiring options and possible ohm loads. unless you buy a prefab box. whats a prefab box? a box that comes from the manufacturer with the speakers already inside. not best buy is not a manufacturer. by manufacturer i mean the speaker companys box. like a jl box with jl subs. a mtx box with mtx subs. generally as a rule if yhey don't charge you for the box and the subs seperatly you will be buying a prefab. is a prefab worse than a custom box? it depends on the application. ask me and i will tell you wheather or not it is better. oh yeah, i forgot. how do i figure my ohm load. you can get an currnet meter. these come in useful for many things. around the house, in your cars when trying to see if a fuse is blown or if you are even getting power to the piece of electronic equipment you are trying to install or fix, testing grounds. oh yeah, i forgot. how do i figure my ohm load? if you have SVC's and they wired parallel, the ohm load is exactly what it says on the speaker. if they are wired series, you take the ohm load of the each voice coil, All of the voice coils NEED to be the same when starting out, and you divide that by the number of voice coils. like if you have 2 speakers with SVC's and they are 4 ohms by themselves, you take 4 and divide it by 2. 4/2=2. 2 ohms. the same can be said for a DVC. except instead of 2 speakers, there is only 1. that one speaker with dual 4 ohm voice coils can be run at either 2, 4, or 8 ohms. same thing as 2 speakers. you can run the voice coils either series or parallel. series being both running together at 2 ohms and parallel both running together at 4 ohms. with DVC's you can run dual 4 speaker in series at 2 ohms. and then wire it parallel to another dual 4 also running at 2 ohms, and together they will run 2 ohms. or you can wire them like this. each dvc is wired in parallel, so now you have 2 dual 4's running at 4 each. then wire them series and they will be running also 2 ohms. or you can wire each speaker series and then wire the speakers together series and they will be running 1 ohm. or you can wire each speaker parallel and then wire the 2 together parallel and they will be running 4 ohms. if you don't get it get a calculator and do the math. if you still don't get it get some paper and do the math. if you still don't get it tell me i am a dumbass and i need to explain it better. why are all the different ohm loads necessary? different applications and different amplifiers. sub amps can range for 4 ohm stable to well the furthest i have seen one rated was a 1/32 of an ohm. that is one hellafied amp though and you will need lots of upgrades to the rest of your car for that amp. most sub amps are either 1 or 2 ohm stable though. you can wire your amps lower tahn the manufacturer says it can go, but i would not recommend it for too long. maybe just for a competition. what will happen if i wire my 2 ohm stable amp to one ohm? ruin it any way you look at it and in most cases you will get very bad SQ the entire time. how quickly depends on how loud you listen to the amp. the kenwood 600 watt amp in another thread for example is a 2 ohm stable amp. when i wired it 1 ohm to see if i could get 600 out of it it did three things. overheat, stop working, and made a good fire to cook things with. this is an extreme though. usually if you overload your amp it will just sound bad for a while until it starts to smoke uncontrolabley. which could make it hard to see out the windows. oh and your question about if i go from 4 ohms to 2 ohms, will it double my power? it depends on the amp. if i go from 2 ohms to 1 ohm, will i double my power? it depends on the amp. generally speaking though, on mono block amps that is pretty close to what happens on most of them. what is a mono block amp? and amp with only one channel of out put. basically speaking it is an amp that is already bridged for you. if you have questions about multi channel amps you will have to ask me about specific siteations cuz there are a whloe freakin lot of scenarios that i could go through, and i am sorry but i just worked a 15 hour day and i am tired and i am going to sleep after i check the other threads cuz i am getting bored with this one right now and i hate my a.d.d. cuz it makes me bored after a while no matter what i am doing. dang that was a long sentance. i more than likely coulda made this longer, but why? i mean come on its only 7846 long. isn't that enough?
J

wowsers! nice thread... maybe a sticky if arranged a bit cleaner.

im more in the know about the ohm situation... thanks.

sorry to say my real quandry was how the power gets bigger when you drop ohms. like you'll see on an amp specs 100x2 4ohm, 200x2 2ohm, 350x1 4ohm. i see that kinda numbers alot... i was curious why you get so much power when you bridge the amp. and its 4ohm load... i figure the 2ohm just doubles since its half the resistance, but i get lost trying to figure out bridging.

[ebpda9]

yeah maybe you should copy your reply in a new thread and one of the mods to make it a sticky.

[black95gs-t]

the way it goes up in power in lower ohms is due to less resistance.the less resistance over the surface that it flows over, hte higher the power that can flow over it. when you bridge the amp even if it is bridged at 4 ohms, you are using both channels for one output. like i said it all depends on the amp circuitry.
J

so tell me this... if an amp is 90x2 4ohm how can it be 240x1 bridged 4ohm? here's example...

http://caraudiozone.woofersetc.com/s...f?item_ID=2204

thats more than just the two channels combined.

[black95gs-t]

like i said it all depends on the design of the circuitry. i could give you a class in circuitry, but i can't make that easy to understand. in addition it would probably take me like 2 months just to write everything you would need to know. and i'm not kidding aobut the 2 months. if you thought that last post was long, it was nothing compared to the circuitry class. really, very few people in the car audio field even have studied circuitry except for the designers, and us insane people with lots of free time. ( that last statement could be decieving. i HAD lots of free time. but i don not any more. ) if you want to know about the design, i'm sorry to say this but there is really too much info involved for me to jsut post it on here. not to mention that i don't completly understand all of it myself. my best suggestion to you would be, go hit the library. sorry.
J

i understand... i thought maybe you had a cliff's notes version. lol.

[black95gs-t]

with circuitry, its all or nuthin. i could tell you a little, but really it would get you nowhere.
J

okie.. ty anyways

[black95gs-t]

your welcome.
Jon

but all maxvla needs to know is:
Ohm's Law?

V=I x R
where
V=voltage
I=current
R=resistance

and to know that wiring multiple loads(speakers) in parallel results in a subsequent drop in resistance equal to the results acheived by this formula:
1 1 1 1... 1
--- = --- + --- + --- + ---
R r1 r2 r3... rn
where
R=overall resistance(that which is "seen" by the amp
r1=resistance of first driver(loudspeaker)
r2= " " second " "
r3= " " third " "
rn= resistance of nth driver

so you can see that for a fixed voltage "I" is inversely proportional to "R". decreasing R increases I... to a point. There are physical limits to the amount of current an amplifier can pass, and that is where the circuitry issues come in, and I won't pretend I know anything about that...

Hope that helps... from everyone's favorite newbie(j/k),
J

[black95gs-t]

well you know what? yeah that is correct. BUT, if you do not have the proper equipment to test resistance, or know nothing about what any of that means, like the people that i was explaining it to, that does not help at all. so yes if they knew anything about electronics that would have helped. but since they didn't, my way of explaining it works better. thanks.
J

my way of explaining it works better

did you explain it? you just said "you won't understand". thanks... oh and if you were wondering why i felt the need to call you on that one, it's complicated and i don't want to get into it, but trust me, i'm right... jfwy...

he said you were right. the reason he didn't go into detail is that to most people formulas mean nothing.

bah! okay then. did that help you at all?

[black95gs-t]

yes the formulas are correct. i believe i said that already though. but, if they don't know what an ohm is, or even current for that matter, what good are the formulas? and really, i believe his question was, "why does the power get bigger when the ohms drop?" without understanding circuitry that cannot be explained. because in amplifiers when the ohms drop the power does not always go up. an example of this is the alpine mrv 357. i think that is the model number. well in case it isn't, the one i am reffering to is the 1400 watts at 4 ohms in 1 bridged channel. on that amplifier, in 2 ohms, in 2 channels, you get quite a bit less total power out of the channels. yes i know that when you bridge the channels all of the power from the 2 channels goes to one source and when they are seperate it goes to seperate sources. but, without understanding specifics about circuitry, you will have no clue why running 2 seperate 4 ohm speakers on 2 seperate channels will not produce the same total power as running the same 2 4 ohm speakers at a 4 ohm load on the 2 channels bridged. the reason for the varience in total power is attributed to amp design which cannot be explained in any short form on here. so for the next time you think about butting heads with me on knowlege, make sure you know what you are talking about. thank you.
J

okay, then i guess we agree to disagree. i'm not trying to but heads with you on knowledge, i'm just sharing some of mine. yes, i know, there are current-limiting and voltage-regulating amplifiers. i don't care how they work, i just know that they do. same principal as object-oriented programming... the insides of the black box don't matter, it's the output that matters. i wasn't talking about the workings of the mechanical device, i was sharing the principle behind the wattage gain acheived by lowering resistance. if you want to assume that anyone reading this is ignorant, that's kind of ignorant... pah, like i said, agree to disagree, huh?

someone stop the madness!!!!

hehehe, we could do that too... damn my stubborn-ness, damn it all to hell...

[black95gs-t]

my shop teacher had a saying. "stupid is forever, but ignorance can be fixed." there is nothing wrong with being ignorant. everyone in the world is ignorant about something. if i am going to explain something, i assume that the person knows nothing about what i am talking about. that way i don't have to reexplain it. if i put it all in technical terms, i am sure that there are more than enough people out there that wouldn not understand it. have you ever been to a hospital? do you understand everything that the doctors say? do you know every medical accronym? i don't think so. just like everyone does not speak car. if you say the word gasket around some people, they have no idea what you are talking about, just like everyone does not know what bhp and whp are. i try to put what i say into terms that people with no experience with what i am talking about can understand. i know that i do not always accomplish this, but i try.
J

now i can stop the madness. thread goes kaput!