D series Power

[AzCivic]

sounds good, from this day on i'm not gonna argue about this type of thing, it really is a waste of time.

Originally posted by AzCivic
ehh, swaps suck.

really? So tell me. How fast does your D run? does it run a low 12 too??? Come on lets see some time slips.

[pdiggitydogg]

honestly, what difference does it mean how fast a car goes in a straight line? If cars were meant to do that, they wouldnt have steering wheels, now would they?
Sorry, I just think that kind of crap is dumb

Originally posted by silver
i'm so tired of hearing about the if you did this and i heard this and stuff. use what you "know" not what you heard.

a turbo vs. na setup on the same motor with the same whp and all the same variables will not give you a turbo will always win or na will always win. the only way you could even begin to guess who would win without racing is to look at the dynos. looking at merely the peak hp and making sure that they are the same does not mean that you are comparing apples to apples. is the peak hp and tq made at the same rpm? what about fuel/air/spark, both setups will not have the same settings, not possible. claiming that anyone will beat the other one was a bad idea for an observation with just a little thought.

you cannot compare an h22 to a d motor and the gains that they would make on paper or on a dyno. too many other factors will play a part in such a race. weight and distribution, suspension setups, everything would play a role, not just the motor. turbo d series eg with a t28 ball bearing of an sr20det plus all the other necessary setup to complete it, putting down 262hp @12psi to the wheels, apexi n1 coilovers plus lots of other susupension goodies, with a/c and all the other nicities, runs a 13.1 e.t.(after 3 runs) how do i know this? i built the car, using the turbo from my s14, which dynoed mid 400's in hp earlier in the day, and had my ass handed to me while running a 13.6. he had a higher trap speed then me as well. price of the turbo setup? $3700. that includes an upgraded clutch also. and it ran on nitto 555's. i understand he has since run a 12.6 with slicks. (i ran the car also and put down a 13.8 on just one run) now would you like to know what that car did to the h22 powered ek hatch with i/h/e? h22 ran a 13.9...i was the driver. that was my best run, i couldn't get traction...and my daily driver is a spec-v, so it's not like i don't have the experience with tq heavy fwd cars.

the h22 is an ass kicker motor, but it takes just as much work as any other motor to make it fast, like every motor it has as many cons as pros. there are so many factors to building a car that these silly arguments will never solve until you actually go head to head with controlled variables.

feel free to ask me for more real world examples.

too bad u didnt include the engine work in with the price of the turbo kit. We all know that the stock D wont even come close to handling 262 WHP. As far as your H series power Civic. Well obviously it was on street tires. Not on drag radials like your D. Your comparison is flawed. A little bit more fair comparison would be nice. I can make a B18B seem faster than the C5 if I wanted to. So please.

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
honestly, what difference does it mean how fast a car goes in a straight line? If cars were meant to do that, they wouldnt have steering wheels, now would they?
Sorry, I just think that kind of crap is dumb

I like good handling cars as much as the next person. Unfortunately we are talking about ET's here. We just had a bit of a disagreement. I was curious how fast his D was since (its way better than engine swaps). I wanted to see if he could back up what he was saying thats all.

[AzCivic]

does it say i have anything like a turbo or nitrous in my sig, didnt think so.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

my d is slow.....at a measly 16.7, nearly stock, one of the rim was not balanced right, 3 different sets of tires, and it was a first time at the tracks...so if i didn't have all those variables i prolly would have ran 16.5...still slow oh well, a nicely tuned turboD is on its way

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

since this thread is about D Power, this might be of interest...

http://turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=5371
and his website:
http://www.geocities.com/boostsohfast/

[silver]

ok...13.1 d series on streets
13.9 h series on streets
that was the comparison i stated...the d on slicks was 12.6
and the internals upgrade were minor, the only thing that was done that wasn't included in the 3700 was an upgraded ferrea valvetrain, cost 900.

so 4600, for a low 13 second car.

i think the comparison is very fair. turbo d vs. na H, same driver, almost the same cars with very similar suspensions, it's about as close as you can get

Originally posted by silver
ok...13.1 d series on streets
13.9 h series on streets
that was the comparison i stated...the d on slicks was 12.6
and the internals upgrade were minor, the only thing that was done that wasn't included in the 3700 was an upgraded ferrea valvetrain, cost 900.

so 4600, for a low 13 second car.

i think the comparison is very fair. turbo d vs. na H, same driver, almost the same cars with very similar suspensions, it's about as close as you can get

hello!!!!! the D series was on drag radials!! the H series was obviously on a normal street tire (not on drag radials). Still way off. A bone stock H22A1 (190 HP version) on slicks runs a 13.4. On drag radials they run prolly somewhere very close to that bone stock. U talk about variables, and differences, but u throw in variables to make the D series seem advantageous in this point. Atleast when I compared them I used similar instances, as well as thought about similar suspension and tire set ups. Not to mention I dont have an S14 I can borrow parts off of. Im sure not many other people do either.

ohh yeah one more thing. Initially in this post we started off with a 283 FHP D series. I said that it would break 12's if it were lucky and most likely low 13's. Well given that u have 14 percent drivetrain loss u are looking at 243 WHP. still 19 HP below your turbo D. Your turbo D's best was 13.1's. Granted its not on slicks but on a 13 second car its not a huge difference between slicks and drag radials. Obviously there are alot of other variables here, but comparing the two I see somewhere in the low 13's on 243 WHP to be a good educated guess, like I said previously.
The only thing I was saying that I can get an H22 faster for cheaper than the amount that the turbo D that started this post did. I still believe that. As u have proved though that u can go faster for cheaper than that guy did. Definately give u props on getting a D into the low 13's. No doubt. Now its in the 12's which is impressive (obviously more mods, or more boost was done, but still impressive).

Originally posted by AzCivic
does it say i have anything like a turbo or nitrous in my sig, didnt think so.

my point exactly. When u do turbo your car, and find out how hard it is to get a car into the 12's just come back and talk to me. Then u will have atleast an understanding of what it takes.

[pdiggitydogg]

not everyone CARES to get a car in the 12's...

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by Honda_Tengoku
my point exactly. When u do turbo your car, and find out how hard it is to get a car into the 12's just come back and talk to me. Then u will have atleast an understanding of what it takes.

cause you have all the answers right?

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
honestly, what difference does it mean how fast a car goes in a straight line? If cars were meant to do that, they wouldnt have steering wheels, now would they?
Sorry, I just think that kind of crap is dumb

You know you would race your car if it had a GSR motor - you would piss on d's and love it.

[pdiggitydogg]

actually, i probably wouldnt

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
actually, i probably wouldnt

Well, dont knock it till you've tried it.

IMO, hondas are not performance cars. They are not supposed to be put through the twisties or dragraced - which is exactly why we make them do it . . .

[pdiggitydogg]

certain motors (ie the b18 and b16's) were designed to be that though - twisties i mean

none of them are straightline monsters...who would want them to be?

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by cashizslick
Well, dont knock it till you've tried it.

IMO, hondas are not performance cars. They are not supposed to be put through the twisties or dragraced - which is exactly why we make them do it . . .

so Honda didn't design the B18C5 to be a track monster or the NSX or the S2000?

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
so Honda didn't design the B18C5 to be a track monster or the NSX or the S2000?

I was reffering to OUR hondas

[silver]

Originally posted by Honda_Tengoku
hello!!!!! the D series was on drag radials!! the H series was obviously on a normal street tire (not on drag radials). Still way off.

i stand corrected, i was assuming something else in my head when thinking about this. i think the H was running on some hankooks or kumhos.

Originally posted by AzCivic
cause you have all the answers right?

of course not. I dont have all the answers. I only claim that I have some understanding of what it takes.

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
not everyone CARES to get a car in the 12's...

well obviously azcivic does. Or he wouldnt be arguing. This post is about making a D fast (obviously). The single most performance aspect that people look at is the quarter mile when it comes to making more power out of a car.
ok, well if not everone cares (sounds like including u), then I suggest u and anyone else who doesnt care not to click on your left mouse button to select this post. This is a free country and u can do what u want. OMG I dont select posts I am not interested in. Whats the problem?

Originally posted by cashizslick
Well, dont knock it till you've tried it.

IMO, hondas are not performance cars. They are not supposed to be put through the twisties or dragraced - which is exactly why we make them do it . . .

exactly! Believe it or not Hondas are a poor mans car in Japan (excluding the NSX). They arent really liked too much by performance enthusiasts. Why would they when they have the Skylines, and Silvias, and other cars to play with. How do I know this u ask? I spent a bit of time in Japan.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

yeah, we get the shitty version of the cars that they make overseas....

America always tries to make something out of nothing, look at those building Geo Metros and Suzuki Swifts..........wtf.

D series power, I'm there, where do I sign???

197whp, 2 years, 12psi, ALL stock internals, got a lunch box full of B's.....................anyone want one..................