.:HSTuners::

IALuder · 10-24-2003, 12:22 PM

Take the poll

I want to know the pros and cons of both boosted/all motor.
which will last longer.Which cuase very little harm to the motor.
which you guys prefer.

no NoS Posts please, keep to turbos superchargers and all motor setups.

*AzCivic* · 10-24-2003, 12:26 PM

BOOST!!! its the only way to go with a 4cylinder!!!

10-24-2003, 02:09 PM

ill agree with that - either boost or Naws (my plan).

*pdiggitydogg* · 10-24-2003, 04:45 PM

boost...but an all motor c5

pimpinprelude · 10-24-2003, 07:37 PM

all motor is unrealiable*.....

IALuder · 10-24-2003, 09:12 PM

how is it unrealiable?

pdigg what about an all motor c5?

sohc_vtec 2NR · 10-24-2003, 09:51 PM

as a generalization all-motor is unreliable because in order to achieve high horsepower you would need agressive cams that function well during high rpm operation, also increasing the compression ratio is necessary which changes the dynamics of that engine...

as far as the C5 all motor, i think this is the best and only way for this engine. why? because it was tuned to be an all motor car from the factory, it already has a high compression ratio and is meant to be revved freely in high rpms, whoever disagrees need to be shot

Shaved &/or Laid · 10-24-2003, 10:38 PM

Ground Zero apparently does cause they boost the ass out of them.

10-25-2003, 12:06 AM

True, but if you ever were gonna buy an engine and were planning to boost it, the GSR would be a better choice than the type R because it has lower compression - granted it is still possible to boost a Type R, but the motor is already designed for NA use so (IMO) it should be kept that way.

*pdiggitydogg* · 10-25-2003, 06:44 AM

actually a c5 na Id probably leave it as stock as I could get away with
all that honda type r-yness is already there with honda reliability

1thing for sure is swap in a ctr intake cam

ebpda9 · 10-25-2003, 09:01 PM

i say boost.

IALuder · 10-25-2003, 10:52 PM

hmm havnt heard of pros cons of boosting a car.

10-26-2003, 03:21 PM

pros of boost- easy horsepower gain, best bang for the buck you can get, you can have high horsepower and still a streetable vehicle, and a really cool sound when you shift and the blowoff valve releases

cons of boost- maintenance, if not done right can blow engine (rare but ive heard of it)

pros of all motor- bragging rights of the ability to say that you built an all motor car

cons- horrible idle, not very streetable, hella expensive

*edit* Im for boost all the way *\edit*

Kyle · 10-26-2003, 05:42 PM

cash and 2nr...ALL cars that are N/A from the factory are meant to be all motor...I'm pretty sure they didn't start selling integra LS's and think people all over were just gonna turbo them...
I pick boost by the way

Shaved &/or Laid · 10-26-2003, 09:38 PM

heh i was just saying that Ground Zero apparently cant drive anything without a huge amount of b00st. I mean, DUC has like 712whp on a streetable car, which i believe is a type R motor ? either way, theys some razy mofos.

IALuder · 10-26-2003, 10:23 PM

if you were to go all motor which engine would you purchase?

if you were to go boost which engine would you purchase?

sohc_vtec 2NR · 10-27-2003, 09:59 PM

all motor: b18c5 NO DOUBT!
BOOST: b18b (i believe that's the ls motor, correct me if i'm wrong)

IALuder · 10-27-2003, 10:18 PM

it is the ls non vtec. what about boosting a c1?

thermal · 10-28-2003, 01:47 AM

Come on guys...... There some misconceptions here. Reliability has many factors, given the same engine for either application. To name some of these aspects: driving habits, maintenance, environment, and most importantly (on modified engine).... tuning. The question is, which platform would be ideal to either turbo or n/a build up. My answer is, once again, given the same engine and decent funding, IT WOULDNT MATTER which platform. High compression does not necessarily mean bad for boost. It just means more thought in the process. A turboed high compression engine will have the best of both worlds on a semi-decent build. It will have the low end power of a lagging turbo. Technology is here to combat issues with high compression+turbo. There are anti-knock devices, anti-detonation units, temperature calculators, fuel additives, acurate duration analyzers, etc.... Tuning is the key. Put that biatch in a dyno and tune it that way. Meguiars TypeR is pushing 20 psi on a stock internal dual-charged (turboed and supercharged) but with optimum tuning........
Soon, within a year or less, you will see my JDM B18C ITR turboed running daily at 12 psi on stock internals.

The low compression/force induction bulls**t started when Billy Bob figured out that his lawn mower has such a low compression that he went ahead and rigged his leaf blower on the intake to cut the grass faster. It wasnt cutting fast enough so he swapped the pistons from his go-kart (higher ratio) and hooked up Naws and the leaf blower.......well, guess what...... the focker blew up cuz it wasnt tune......

My vote to this will not matter. It just really depends on what you want to do and how far you want to take it. Research, researh, and more research. Patience is virtue. To me, boost is the easier route to have a fun car regardless of the compression ratio. Peace!

10-28-2003, 07:38 AM

I agree with thermal. Personally I'm headed for boost via supercharger. I've got a few more details to iron out, but my goal is to be over 250whp by next spring.

IALuder · 10-28-2003, 08:39 AM

im just looking for imformation on boosting and all motor. which would be better, on the car, daily driven, ect ect.

thermal · 10-28-2003, 04:07 PM

contrary to popular belief, azcivic knows his s**t and so as GT40fied. These guys are very detailed on tuning things like this. I wish Boosted3g and DrDrew are still here to educate us.......

nonovurbizniz · 10-28-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SFKing
im just looking for imformation on boosting and all motor. which would be better, on the car, daily driven, ect ect.

To answer your question. (sort of)...

NEITHER...

or BOTH...

If it's tuned right it should last a good long time... as long as you're not running it at the peak of all the parts...

The more towards the peak performance of some parts will result in faster wear...

The reason people generally lower comp. for boost is so that at the upper rpms you aren't pushing too much compression....

Your head can lift off the block (not permanently (well that's possible too) just while it's under too much compression). Sure it can be accounted for but it's still a possibility... the more compression you're running the more stress on ALL of the rotating mass... so things DO start to break...

If you want a reliable performance engine you need to over build it and under-run it.... IE built it for 1000hp (or whatever) and only run 700... When you start running things at they're peak not only do you increase the risk of blowing something from detonation (shit happens... no matter how well you tune your engine set up there is NOTHING you can do about freak occurances or sudden problems) but also from general wear.

thermal · 10-28-2003, 06:37 PM

^^ thanks nonov.... one of the best shit I've heard in a while...

IALuder · 10-28-2003, 10:40 PM

hmm thanks

View Poll Results: Which is better Boost/All Motor?
Boost	10	83.33%
All Motor	2	16.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

10-24-2003, 12:22 PM	#1
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	Boost/All Motor Take the poll I want to know the pros and cons of both boosted/all motor. which will last longer.Which cuase very little harm to the motor. which you guys prefer. no NoS Posts please, keep to turbos superchargers and all motor setups.

10-24-2003, 09:12 PM	#6
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	how is it unrealiable? pdigg what about an all motor c5? __________________ 93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit.

10-24-2003, 09:51 PM	#7
sohc_vtec 2NR Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Kenosha, WI Age: 38 Posts: 1,137	as a generalization all-motor is unreliable because in order to achieve high horsepower you would need agressive cams that function well during high rpm operation, also increasing the compression ratio is necessary which changes the dynamics of that engine... as far as the C5 all motor, i think this is the best and only way for this engine. why? because it was tuned to be an all motor car from the factory, it already has a high compression ratio and is meant to be revved freely in high rpms, whoever disagrees need to be shot __________________ RICE....is good

10-24-2003, 10:38 PM	#8
Shaved &/or Laid 4th Gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nashville Age: 37 Posts: 853	Ground Zero apparently does cause they boost the ass out of them. __________________ Doody Ej1 Yse.

10-24-2003, 12:26 PM	#2
AzCivic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Az Age: 43 Posts: 3,804	BOOST!!! its the only way to go with a 4cylinder!!!

10-24-2003, 02:09 PM	#3
cashizslick Posts: n/a	ill agree with that - either boost or Naws (my plan).

10-24-2003, 04:45 PM	#4
pdiggitydogg Yahoo Watashi wa kattaze! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Meanwhile, up in The D... Age: 40 Posts: 10,579	boost...but an all motor c5

10-24-2003, 07:37 PM	#5
pimpinprelude Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta Age: 36 Posts: 1,325	all motor is unrealiable*.....

10-25-2003, 12:06 AM	#9
cashizslick Posts: n/a	True, but if you ever were gonna buy an engine and were planning to boost it, the GSR would be a better choice than the type R because it has lower compression - granted it is still possible to boost a Type R, but the motor is already designed for NA use so (IMO) it should be kept that way.

10-25-2003, 06:44 AM	#10
pdiggitydogg Yahoo Watashi wa kattaze! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Meanwhile, up in The D... Age: 40 Posts: 10,579	actually a c5 na Id probably leave it as stock as I could get away with all that honda type r-yness is already there with honda reliability 1thing for sure is swap in a ctr intake cam

10-25-2003, 09:01 PM	#11
ebpda9 Repost Wagon Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: over here Age: 43 Posts: 17,266	i say boost. __________________

10-25-2003, 10:52 PM	#12
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	hmm havnt heard of pros cons of boosting a car. __________________ 93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit.

10-26-2003, 03:21 PM	#13
Shot 2 Hel Posts: n/a	pros of boost- easy horsepower gain, best bang for the buck you can get, you can have high horsepower and still a streetable vehicle, and a really cool sound when you shift and the blowoff valve releases cons of boost- maintenance, if not done right can blow engine (rare but ive heard of it) pros of all motor- bragging rights of the ability to say that you built an all motor car cons- horrible idle, not very streetable, hella expensive edit Im for boost all the way \edit

10-26-2003, 05:42 PM	#14
Kyle elyK Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Braunfels, TX Age: 37 Posts: 3,390	cash and 2nr...ALL cars that are N/A from the factory are meant to be all motor...I'm pretty sure they didn't start selling integra LS's and think people all over were just gonna turbo them... I pick boost by the way __________________ IGNORE THE FACTS EXPLORE THE TRUTH

10-26-2003, 09:38 PM	#15
Shaved &/or Laid 4th Gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nashville Age: 37 Posts: 853	heh i was just saying that Ground Zero apparently cant drive anything without a huge amount of b00st. I mean, DUC has like 712whp on a streetable car, which i believe is a type R motor ? either way, theys some razy mofos. __________________ Doody Ej1 Yse.

10-26-2003, 10:23 PM	#16
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	if you were to go all motor which engine would you purchase? if you were to go boost which engine would you purchase? __________________ 93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit.

10-27-2003, 09:59 PM	#17
sohc_vtec 2NR Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Kenosha, WI Age: 38 Posts: 1,137	all motor: b18c5 NO DOUBT! BOOST: b18b (i believe that's the ls motor, correct me if i'm wrong) __________________ RICE....is good

10-27-2003, 10:18 PM	#18
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	it is the ls non vtec. what about boosting a c1? __________________ 93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit.

10-28-2003, 01:47 AM	#19
thermal Banning Machine Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: My Garage, Va. Posts: 5,547	Come on guys...... There some misconceptions here. Reliability has many factors, given the same engine for either application. To name some of these aspects: driving habits, maintenance, environment, and most importantly (on modified engine).... tuning. The question is, which platform would be ideal to either turbo or n/a build up. My answer is, once again, given the same engine and decent funding, IT WOULDNT MATTER which platform. High compression does not necessarily mean bad for boost. It just means more thought in the process. A turboed high compression engine will have the best of both worlds on a semi-decent build. It will have the low end power of a lagging turbo. Technology is here to combat issues with high compression+turbo. There are anti-knock devices, anti-detonation units, temperature calculators, fuel additives, acurate duration analyzers, etc.... Tuning is the key. Put that biatch in a dyno and tune it that way. Meguiars TypeR is pushing 20 psi on a stock internal dual-charged (turboed and supercharged) but with optimum tuning........ Soon, within a year or less, you will see my JDM B18C ITR turboed running daily at 12 psi on stock internals. The low compression/force induction bulls**t started when Billy Bob figured out that his lawn mower has such a low compression that he went ahead and rigged his leaf blower on the intake to cut the grass faster. It wasnt cutting fast enough so he swapped the pistons from his go-kart (higher ratio) and hooked up Naws and the leaf blower.......well, guess what...... the focker blew up cuz it wasnt tune...... My vote to this will not matter. It just really depends on what you want to do and how far you want to take it. Research, researh, and more research. Patience is virtue. To me, boost is the easier route to have a fun car regardless of the compression ratio. Peace! __________________ Project Teg Visit the Turbo Forum

10-28-2003, 07:38 AM	#20
ricerX Posts: n/a	I agree with thermal. Personally I'm headed for boost via supercharger. I've got a few more details to iron out, but my goal is to be over 250whp by next spring.

10-28-2003, 08:39 AM	#21
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	im just looking for imformation on boosting and all motor. which would be better, on the car, daily driven, ect ect. __________________ 93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit.

10-28-2003, 04:07 PM	#22
thermal Banning Machine Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: My Garage, Va. Posts: 5,547	contrary to popular belief, azcivic knows his s**t and so as GT40fied. These guys are very detailed on tuning things like this. I wish Boosted3g and DrDrew are still here to educate us....... __________________ Project Teg Visit the Turbo Forum

10-28-2003, 06:37 PM	#24
thermal Banning Machine Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: My Garage, Va. Posts: 5,547	^^ thanks nonov.... one of the best shit I've heard in a while... __________________ Project Teg Visit the Turbo Forum

10-28-2003, 10:40 PM	#25
IALuder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Des Moines IA Age: 38 Posts: 7,908	hmm thanks __________________ 93 Si H23vtec......soon to be 12lbs 95 Civic EX....automatic DD if you cant dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullshit.

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