Important News About Honda Style

[Chief]

Hey gang,

I've got some important news to share regarding Honda Style.

We recently received a letter from American Honda Motor Co (AHM) regarding the use of "Honda" in the domain and have been sent a cease and desist letter. From my understanding, this is an ongoing process by Honda - we're not the first site, and we certainly won't be the last site to be hit by this.

Here's an excerpt so you can get the gist of the letter:

The use of Honda trademark must cease immediately. "HONDA" must not be used as a part of a domain name, Internet websites, invoices, order forms, promotional materials, directory listings, advertisements, mailers, letterhead, or on other items.

The improper use of AHM's (American Honda Motors) marks and the overall impressions of your advertisements create the false impression that Hondastyle.com is associated with, endorsed, sponsored or licensed by AHM. The creation of this false impression must cease immediately.

AHM demands that you provide to us your written assurances within ten (10) days that you will cease all of these violations.

So what does this mean to you?
Nothing as bad as it may intially sound. We are basically going to have to change the url to something without "Honda" in the name. We are in the process of moving the site over to the new domain. Once this is complete, we will notify you all of the new location and put some redirects in place for those of you that may forget. Basically everything will remain the same - same crew, same members, same great info - just a different url and site name. Hope you'll all continue to support the site.

Thanks,
Chris

ahh crap thats stupid. I wonder if www.hondagallery.com the site im an admin at is going to get the same thing. I think thats kind of dumb but oh well.

[TeriyakiBroccoli]

NOooooooooooooooooooo thats so gay.

thats the dumbest thing i've ever herd....if anyone was stupid enough to think that just because it has Honda in the name that it is directly linked to honda motor company they need to be shot......i would like to believe that people have more common sense than that but noooooo

[DjFrost]

hmm..........what will happen if you don't change it?? I like the current site name

and that is the dumbest thing I ever heard.............stupid AHM

[blind34_1]

damn suits. change it to #ondastyle.com if you have to.
Actually, you may be interested in researching the ford motor company lawsuit, one that ruled not in ford favor. They were pissed that somebody made a website that says fordsucks.com, and it is legal. Consult a lawyer that is in-the-know. I'll try and find more info on your legal rights though. the case was 2600 vs. Ford.

ie read the back issues of 2600! www.2600.com

yeah wat would happen if chief doesnt change the name?...i mean does Honda have the right to have the site closed or taken off the net? If you do change the name of the site, will we all have the same names and post counts and everything the same??

[ebpda9]

yup the only difference is that you will have to come to a different adress

Well I was talking with the Owner of Hondagallery.com and he was telling me that they have been doing this for years, but its kind of all talk and no action.

[DjFrost]

I say keep the name and url.....

[pdiggitydogg]

damn the man

hmm. quite gay indeed.

couldn't we put a message on all of our pages saying hondastyle.com is in no way affiliated with American Honda Motors?

AHM is making alot of assumptions with no facts backing up their claims.

i think its total bullshit..
if that were the case, there would be thousands of websites having to change their url because they have a companys name or logo incorporated in theirs.
www.nissan.com isnt the car company and they have been up and running long b4 i was really into cars, i think the only way they can make anyone change anything is to buy out the domain. you bought it, its registered to you, tell them to take a hike

[Chief]

Here's an article about Honda suing websites that incorporate "Honda" in the name:

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,34546,00.html

On the second page:

The automaker’s representatives said the suit against the Schreibers is part of a larger campaign to maintain control over Web sites containing its trademark. Honda officials said it doesn't matter if a site is a fan site or a commercial one -- the important thing is making sure trademarks aren't abused.

"When we become aware of a site, we will ask them to quit using our name," said Art Garner, a spokesman for Honda's US division.

In addition, attorneys hired by Honda have written numerous cease-and-desist letters asking companies to voluntarily transfer domains or alter sites to avoid a lawsuit.

The number of suits filed by parties seeking transfers of domain names they claim infringe on their trademarks appears to be steadily on the rise in recent months, said Carl Oppedahl, a patent and trademark attorney with Oppedahl and Larson.

I mean really, the bottom line is regardless of whether or not what they are asking is fair, I don't have the money to hire lawyers to argue my case if it came down to it - which in all reality it would (if I refused to change the site name).

honda-tech got a letter too- they told honda to shove it up their ass. I suggest you do the same, as its what I intend to do. If they want the name, they can buy it. Period. name your price.

excatly if they want the domain name they should have to buy it from you legaly instead of just shutting it down and making you change urls

[ShEaNy]

hondastyle....one word..lol....couldnt u just fight that...Honda is in it......but who cares...i dunno thats stupid all together...there must be a way around that...like what could they possibly do..shut down the site? could they do something to u chief? i say keep the name for now....just put like Hstyle or something if u have to change it...

[DjFrost]

screw AHM.......but then again I don't want anything to happen to the webmaster but if you really plan to go along with their letter....then hstyle.com might be good url but I think it's taken already by this dude from Japan

Hayashi, Sam sam@twics.com
2-7-26 Higashi-Kohri
Hirakata, Osaka 573-0075
JP

i asked a few people around here:

I'm not a lawyer, but I do some writing and this subject comes up all the time in that trade.

Copyright and trademark owners have near-absolute control over how that brand name or work is used. The only exceptions I am aware of is for news coverage, speech between individuals, brief quotes in legitimate critical reviews, and the advertised resale of the companies products. I learned there are no legal exceptions for non-profit use, literature and works of fiction, charity work, enthusiast publishing or even owner and user groups. (I know from first-hand experience that the Gold Wing Road Rider Association, an organization of Honda Gold Wing owners, had to obtain a license from Honda to use the Gold Wing trademark in their name.)

Honda is one of the more vigilant companies when it comes to trademark enforcement. There are some that are much worse. Harley Davidson is legendary for trademarking and copywriting every imaginable part and feature of their bikes, and then using pit bull legal tactics to make sure no one uses their property without permission.

You might think someone at Honda gets paid for being a prick, and there might be some truth in that. But there are good reasons for a company to act like this. Trademarks are only recognized when they are defended. If a company allows unchallenged use of their trademarks for any reason, they can lose the legal right to claim ownership of their own name. It seems unlikely that Honda could become a generic term for a small car. But how many times do you ask for a Coke instead of a cola, or a Kleenex instead of a tissue? If Coca-Cola and Kimberly Clark didn't enforce their trademark rights with writers and others, they could easily and quickly loose their ownership.

If it's any consolation, you got the nice version of their cease and desist letter. Since this is a non-profit and non-revenue producing site, you might get away with ignoring it for a long time to come. This isn't because Honda is only blowing smoke, however. It's because the first thing lawyers are taught in law school is to never sue poor people, and they probably presume someone running an internet message board qualifies. More likely is a cheap court order forcing your ISP or hosting provider to shut down the site or your access to the web.

But if Honda decided to sue, the clock on damages started running when you were made aware of your act of trademark infringement.

Personally, I don't think its worth the risk. I'd change the name and send them proof of your compliance. But dealing with this stuff is part of what I do for a living and obeying trademark law is expected of me by editors and publishers that I work with. I also want my rights respected, too, and yes-I have sent these letters when someone reprinted or reused my work without permission.

this suxxxxxxxxx

[slowEJ6]

congrats to honda for winning the stupid shit of the month award.

Yet another reason why I will never buy another Honda product.

i'm boycotting hondas now.. i gotta find my bus pass

[ShagginJet]

I know i'm late to this party, but I say screw them.

Let's find someone with the last or first name honda, then we'll sell the url to him, and lease if from him for like 35$ a year (what it cost anyways). Then we can claim that the name was in reference to the guy, not honda.

How about freedom of speech, doesn't that have something to do with this?? I mean, no where on the boards is there a honda symbol, is there? As long as the site is clean and the only reference to honda is the name, www.hondastyle.com, then I don't think they can do anything about this. Plus, if you went to court i'm sure you'd win, and you could sue for time/damages/fee's and maybe make some money out of it...

Good luck man, we're behind you. I'd send 50$ via paypal to pay the lawer fee when it all comes down to it.

If it does come down to it and you have to move sites, make it h0ndastyle.com or something, I know that they could quite easily claim that h0nda stands for honda but they couldn't actually prove that the random combination of numbers and letters you chose were deliberately arranged to look like honda now could they!!?

anyway, good luck, i'm off to set-up hondablowsgoats.com

Originally posted by slow ej6
congrats to honda for winning the stupid shit of the month award.

[ShEaNy]

Originally posted by slow ej6
congrats to honda for winning the stupid shit of the month award.

that h0ndastyle...looks pretty good.....

here's something very very interesting:

http://news.com.com/2100-1028-991052.html?tag=fd_top

In the case of the Honda incident currently in question, all they would need to do is find a post that made a derogatory statement about anything Honda owns (cars, commercials, engines, etc.) and they would have a case.

As for the earlier mentioning by BHD who seemed to refer to fair use as no longer existant, the law in that link shows that Fair Use is "not actionable." So therefore, the the Honda case has no legitimate grounds. See part C, section 4 of the law linked in the article. Fair use, non-commercial use, and news reporting/commentary are considered "non-actionable."

My advice would be to keep this law in mind, and ignore the cease and decist letter. If they take action, it looks as though you are fairly well covered. Just make sure that they can't show that you're doing this in any commercial manner, and you should be set.

maybe their claim is not actionable since we aren't a for profit organization.

[TeriyakiBroccoli]

true dat.

more:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/

[blind34_1]

very interesting site. bookmarked!

so my question is, how come honda isn't attacking ricers that put huge honda banners on their windshield? surely there are enough of them around to warrant distributing a cease and desist? oh wait, its called ricecop.com, never mind.

more:

I would suggest visibly posting on the website that you are using the Honda name within the bounds of the Fair Use Rule (Section 107) of the US Copyright Act of 1976, as "the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified in that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

First and most importantly, is the website being used commercially? If it is, then you certainly will not fall under the non-profit education section.

But - what I think is important here is the criticism and comment section. According to the Fair Use Rule, a trademark is not infringed upon if it is being used to illustrate for criticism or commenting. What else is a forum for besides criticism and commenting?

I would suggest, in addition to posting on the site, that you write a letter back to the kind folks who initially sent you the cease order conveying these same things. If you call them on their own rules, you'll be one step ahead.

Also, your site's name is a merely derivative of a trademark, and its contents are protected by the First Amendment.

In the precedent of Bally v. Faber, the court granted a summary judgment in Faber's favor, thereby showing the he was not in violation of trademark laws by creating his 'Bally Sucks' website. To be guilty of trademark infringment Honda would have to show clearly that you were creating a likelihood of confusion between your site and Honda's; in other words, they would have to show that any reasonable consumer would think that your site came from the same source as Honda's. This also applies to the goods you are marketing: Honda markets cars (and other things), but you market nothing. So, it's great if your site is non-profit here too, because if Honda were to claim you were guilty of trademark dilution, they would have to prove that you had done damage to the image of their trademark and that your use of the trademark was commercial in nature.

So, to sum it up, I don't think Honda has any ground.

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Nice work Chris. I've been reading your post over on O/C and there has been a lot of very useful information.

someone's done their research

maxvla....did you get that from a local lawyer or website or email??! thats some good stuff

friends on another forum

[jjcivic92]

That's just plain stupid. I don't understand why they have to press charges because it's www.hondastyle.com Big deal, They should be more like, happy, because of all the honda sites and everyone wanting their cars to hook up. Just stupid ....

[CD5Passion]

I don't want to lose this site, it has helped me from the day I bought my car, and I want it to be able to help me in the future. i think you should have a right to have a site whether or not it has a trademark name, as far as I can see we are not "abusing" their name, and quite frnakly I'm dissapointed in Honda for doing this, you'd think they'd see it as a way to advertise and promote their sales, argh dumb people do rule the world

[jjcivic92]

That's right dude, I totally agree.

The Corporate World SUCKS