[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by 2ndGenTeg
BDC, your posts further enforce my points. On the dyno, notice how peak horsepower is achieved at about 7700-7800 RPM, and all but ends at 8K. The engine simply isn't capable of revving any higher. Also, notice the camshafts being used- stock B16A cams. With as much work as he's put into that engine, why not use something to produce more power? The answer- there's not a whole lot that will prove beneficial, since the engine won't even rev as high as a stock GS-R or Si. Still, 187 hp isn't bad at all- Until you consider B18Cs making 225 hp at the wheels, all motor. How do they do it? They can rev higher, which means more peak horsepower, and they can run the super aggressive cams like the Todas and Juns.

Okay, that's fine. I was just answering his question[s] about the LS/VTEC CiViC in the CiViC vs. Ferrari video. Here's another Dyno chart for you...

Originally posted on ImportReview.com
Horsepower Potential:
This motor has the potential of doing low 11's at the track in a full raced out all motor setting. I would say, staying at 1.8 liter in the LS block, you could achieve well over 220 HP at the wheels SAE corrected. Ours is over 200 at the wheels and the head is not milled, not ported, not polished, not port matched, and is using stock valve train. It just has some decent cams in it. Ours uses 92 octane also. With race gas and higher compression with a head job, 220 seems easy to hit. Its only 17 HP away from where we are now and we are not using the most advanced cams yet. We are also on the stock GS-R fuel pump.

Torque:
This motor pulls in more torque with the same setup than any 1.8 Ltr motor Honda makes...I would say about 8% more torque across the board...Just driving in a straight line, it feels almost like a Prelude motor. Our LS/VTEC has 146 lbs/torque at 200 HP at the wheels. Looking at a Prelude motor, it would have about 160 lbs of torque at 200 HP.

Reliability:
Looking at a Prelude motor...the max HP of the Prelude motor would come in at 7200 RPM or so. Max HP of the LS/VTEC will come in at 8200 RPM or so. So the prelude motor would last longer than the LS/VTEC cause the higher you rev the car...the shorter the engine life... But all in all, the motor is as reliable daily as any other motor. As long as you take care in putting the proper rod bearings in it, new oil pump, new water pump, new coolant, oil changes frequently. And make sure you Teflon tape the tapped oil line in the block. It only gets an average rating for reliability because it is a higher revving motor. RPM = Ruins Peoples Motors. Always will.

Cost:
Here are the parts you need for a great setup..

• B18b/a block.... $600
• B18C1 Head...... $1000 VERY hard to get..
• ITR pistons..... $250
• ALL new bearings.. $300
• Block assembly..... $400
• Balance crank...... $200
• Head gasket....... $55
• Re-tap oil line... $100
• Skunk2 intake manifold $320
• Type-R throttle body.. $250
• Wire harness... $200
• Shift linkage... $150
• ECU.. GSR.... $300
• GS-R tranny... $750
• Fuel Regulator + Guage $175 installed.
• Cam Gears... $250 installed.
• Type-R cams.. $450 installed.
• Valve Adjustment.. $50
• Motor installation... $800
• Intake manifold gasket..$25
• Oil/filter.. $15
• Axles... $200
• Header...4-1 $297
• Cold are intake.. $225
• New timing belt. $80
• New oil pump... $150
• New water pump... $150
• Dyno Tuning.. $100
• 270 CC Injectors.. $200 or used prelude..$100
• Apex V-AFC controller..$320
• 6 puck clutch $350
• Resurface flywheel.... $30

and there you have it....a setup with mostly all Honda parts...total bill for that: about...$8542 Now if you were to substitute pistons, rods, and port/polish the head. Then you have a REAL beast on your hands...ready to take on just about anything but motorcycles on the street. That's a FULLY built, no skimping motor you have there. Nobody said going all-motor and being super fast is cheap. That is why the low rating on cost.

Maintenance:
I recommend getting some Mobil 1 motor oil after the first 1,000 mile break in period. That with some good Bosch model #4227 Platinum plugs and you should be good for a long time. Redline water wetter coolant additive also helps. Check the fuel pressure once in a while and make sure its normal or did not come loose. To get a 100, it has to be a stock motor

Summary:
This is a costly setup, but the final result is very satisfying and very fast. All motor HP is stronger than turbo HP or supercharged HP...its a debate but trust me...it is..2 cars the same weight with exactly same tranny...and 200 at the wheels. The all motor car will win every time. Or at least it should. Nothing is 100%. Nowadays, it is not all about going fast alone...it is about HOW you are going so fast...anyone can put a turbo on and go fast. And for gas mileage and daily driving, the all-motor setup is going to be the winner. Currently at around 200 HP at the wheels and about 147 lb/torque our LS/VTEC is going to get some better cams, some valve train and a ported head soon after that. Then some Pistons. What fun this can be!


**Our LS/VTEC did 13.2 at the track when it was pulling down 180 HP at the wheels. Also it looks like a Type-R head, but it is a GS-R head with red valve cover. Remember, you don't need crazy head porting or DFI to make good power. Our motor has no head milling, no porting, no polishing, no port matching, and stock valve train. That is also a Skunk2 manifold that was added after that race where it did consistent 13.2's at 180 HP.

Follow the link below to see pics - ed.

And to you people who don't think stock rods are good...we are using STOCK LS rods with no shot peening and the rev limiter is at 8600 RPM. We have hit that mark hundreds of times. And this car drove to Sacramento (8 hours each way) raced, then drove all the way home with no incident. How is that for reliability?

Is a GS-R head better than a B16A head on an LS/VTEC? Its hard to say...I guess we will have to test it!

**Update: Our LS/VTEC did 12.0@110 in 1.8 ltr form until we retired it in favor of the B20/VTEC. It had 223@ the wheels and 142 lbs of torque to do this time. The car weighed in at 2000.

• © 2000 IMPORTREVIEW.COM, All rights reserved