[GT40FIED]

Look...even if you can't agree with me that this thing is worded to include US citizens, you at least have to know that sooner or later it will be "reinterpreted" to include them. It's quite possible that the reason we can't agree on what it says is because it was left intentionally vague for future revisions that will include citizens or so a court could declare citizens fair game. The very existence of this bill regardless of whether or not either of us is technically correct sets a dangerous precident and puts us on a very steep, very slippery slope.

I know torture was carried out and so do you. I can't imagine you missed the photos from Abu Ghrab (sp?). They were fucking EVERYWHERE. There have also been numerous reports from Guantanamo and other places (*cough*secret CIA prisons*cough*). While I'll admit that your question about 9/11 is intriguing (putting aside my own personal beliefs on the subject), it's somewhat flawed. First of all, who determines who is "interrogated"? I mean...if we're putting our reputations on the line by allowing torture we'd better be damn sure we've got someone with good intel. Second of all, how can you gaurantee that they'll even give up any info? I'm sure a large part of terrorist training is learning to withstand various methods of torture and interrogation. Lastly, even if they do give up intel, how can anyone be assured it's valid. Let's face it, we've got a track record of believing bad intel. We skullfucked a country who we *thought* had big bad weapons based on bad intelligence, but we're letting a country who's TESTING such weapons get off with a slap on the wrist. Face it...our foreign policy is fucked and this bill is just going to make us look worse in the eyes of the world.