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Originally posted by AccordinStyle
GT...I respect what you are saying but I think you're an idiot...I'VE stayed out of this for as long as I can but what you said pissed me off...you one of those ignorant fucks that's only patriotic when your asshole has just been saved from being seperated from your backside....I also agree that you have alot of desk jockeys in the military that preech that how the world is a safer place due to that fact that stapled two pieces of paper together. But where was your ass when 9/11 happened?? There are alot of people in the military and the government that keep stupid shit from happening to the U.S. Whether it's wrong or right, this country was founded on the fact that we have a set of nuts and aren't afraid to use them...
Oh...and you can fight for your own freedoms, huh? Well how about you get your ass dropped off in the middle of Iraq or Saudi Arabia and we'll see how long you last......
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Patriotic? Who ever said I was patriotic? I don't think simply being born in a certain place gives you an obligation to say that you love it. That is to say, I do enjoy living here...I think it's the lesser of a whole lot of evils. But we're still a deeply flawed society and there are a lot of our own issues that get pushed aside in favor of ideals in other nations that have little or nothing to do with us. Where was my ass when 9/11 happened? Fairly intoxicated in front of my television shaking my head...pretty much the same place as everyone else, including the vast majority of the military. Your hypothesis that this country was founded on the fact that we've got a set of "nuts", as you've eloquently put it, is actually incorrect. We're a country founded on the idea that our ancestors wanted freedoms they didn't have elsewhere. Yes, we were willing to fight for them and we say we still are. But having as much power as we do comes with an inherent responsibility to use that power correctly and wisely. Going to places we have no business being and bombing them into the stone age is not a responsible use of power. Don't get me wrong...I know Iraq was generally hostile towards us, but they in no way posed a direct threat to us. Indirect, perhaps, but so do Lybia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, the Palestinian population, etc. etc. etc. I suppose you could drop me off in the middle of Iraq...but I'd drop my shit and walk away. Why? Because I don't feel that any of those people are threatening any of our freedoms. Without that threat I don't see justification in killing them. They're shooting at us because WE came into THEIR backyards and started shit. You know we'd do the same...and then bomb the shit out of them...if the roles were reversed. Now we're the ones trying to change another people's way of life. What do you think would happen if someone tried to do that here? We'd fight back, of course. I'm not trying to insult the military as a whole, but I think the decision makers have massively fucked up. There are real legitimate threats to us that are much more pressing than what a 3rd world country halfway around the globe is doing right now.
V8...I don't dispute for a minute that they had WMDs in the past...just look at "gulf war syndrome" and the incidents you mentioned with the Kurds. But we weren't going in after the weapons then...we went after them now and got boned. Of course protesters don't do anything...they're a bunch of whiney little hippie pussies with too much spare time. That being said, violence is not always the way to gain or protect. I don't think anyone really wants a war...even the troops over in Iraq. I'm sure they'd be much happier at home with their families. You just have to weigh the importance of these actions against what can stand to be accomplished because of them. In this instance, I don't see us being any better off for having gone there. And the knowledge of what goes on in Iraq day to day is not knowledge that I want. If I did, I'd go sign up at my local recruiting center or become a journalist.