ALL MOTA vs. TURBO
 

Hey what do you guys think is better a car with all mota or a car with a turbo kit or superchager of some kind. But I dont understand what are the benefits of having a car with no NOS or turbo....what can you do to make the car extremly quick without adding any turbo?? :confused:

Depends on what your starting with. If it's a 1.6 DOHC you'll spend alot of $$$ for the HP's The easy bolt on stuff, I/H/E will add a few ponies but nothing like a turbo for the same $$. To really get the power you're looking at CAM gears, CAMS, FPR, and many other abbreviations that I don't care to mention. But, you better know what you're doing and have access to a dyno or your wasting your time.

If your starting with a 1.6 SOHC FORGET IT!!! Turbo all the way. I/H/E are a waste of time. I know, I have them and regret it. There is no way I could keep up with a EX turbo who spent just a few more $$$ than I did. The good thing about the 1.6 is it can take up to 10 psi boost STOCK all day long with no worries. At least that's what I've read in SCC, and a few other places. A turbo EX running say 8 psi (let's stay on the safe side) would smoke me any day and you could get there for around $1300.00.

My advice is to start reading everything you can, and make an informed decision. Don't just take my word for it. Check out the bolt on stuff and the claims, same with the turbo. Good luck.

Quik

all motor doesn't just mean that it's stock what it generally means is that the engine has been built (ie new valvetrain valve's piston's (maybe crank)) this boosts the output of the motor. you can get good horsepower numbers out of a 1.6 SOHC or DOHC but nothing like a turbo. and it'll cost a lot more time energy effort and lay up time (unless you have a project motor) but in the long run you'll end up with a very fast/reliable motor which is the opposite of what you could end up with by going turbo/super/nos.

the main reason people go all motor is so they can say
"yep, she's all motor"

that's about it though. yes it'll be fast and it'll be truely "ready" for a turbo (depending on how you build it).

other benifit's are higher redline (can be a benefit if you're still producing power at those high rpms)
you can essentially pick your power band by using different parts.

the #1 most benificial thing to an all motor car as opposed to a turbo/sc/nos is that the power is almost always there (no spool up) and you'll most likely end up with more usable low end power (again depending on how it's built)

but bang for the buck you should go turbo or SC
F nos it's only there while the tanks full. and it cost's lots to get it filled (you'll just end up spending all your upgrade money on NOS fillups instead).

Turbo sounds good. I have a I/E setup on my '94 EX. Sounds good but not powerful enough. I have 113,000 on my engine though, so I'm somewhat hesitant about getting a turbo. Any advice on whether I should or shouldn't? Do I need additional mods/parts? Thanks.

quik- you mention that it's safe to run 8psi boost. I thought that the Greddy turbo is 40-50 psi. Isn't that a safe amount to run on a otherwise stock car? How much extra hp would an 8psi boost add? :)

first thing you need to do is get a compression test from a shop. if the results are acceptable, then turbo it.
GReddy kit is preset at 5.5 psi which is equivalent to 40-50 hp gain, NOT 40-50 psi.......
GReddy TDO4h-15G can actually max out at around 12-14 psi.

a good rule of thumb is 1 psi boost is equal to 10+/-2 hp gain.
get your compression checked, and e-mail or PM me for turbo info. i can hook you up with any GReddy info that you need plus my GReddy kit is self-installed.

Okay so money wise it is better to get a turbo to make the car fast but I'm scared of blowing the engine out (a turbo or SC can do that right?) How does one prevent the blowing of an engine that has been turbocharged?

Go back and read thermalfi'd16's post again. Check the compression, if it's fine then you should be okay. If you really want to understand turbo's pick up a book and put your reading skills to some good use.:yes: You could also check out www.howstuffworks.com.

Quik

Thanks for the advice thermalfi'd16. That sux about your recent car problems though. Good thing you are covered.

How much louder would my car be if I had the turbo installed? My car is already pretty loud with the I/E installed. Also, would I have to get an intercooler, if I am only running it at 5.5 psi? Should I get bigger brakes to handle the extra hp? Anyone know roughly how much it would cost to install (I don't think I would be able to do it myself)? Thanks :yes:

well i think it's a little irresponsible to say that if your compression is ok you can go turbo ( while true for the most part there's more to it than that.)

as far as no Intercooler it's possible at 5-7 psi but not advisable at all.

also the only way to truely be sure your not going to blow your motor is:

a: get the engine rebuilt/built for turbo
b: you need stand alone engine managment (your stock ecu will not be able to read the boost pressure coming in and it will not know to 1. retard the timing as the boost pressures increases 2. deliver MORE fuel as more boost is introduced 3. retard the timing if knock is sensed.

as far as longevity is concerned the more you invest initially will result in fewer maintanance problems in the future

ex.
if you dont get engine managment expect to blow your motor (unless your running 2-4psi but whats the point)

if you dont use an intercooler expect to blow your motor (sooner) (the hotter air will pre-dispose your car to detonation)

if you dont install a turbo timer (lets the car run for a given period of time in order to allow the turbo to cool down slowly) expect to blow your motor or your turbo much faster than a identical setup with a turbo timer (these things get REALLY hot and turning of the enging stops coolant and oil flow to the turbo. this is a tremendous shock to the turbo and all of it's parts. allowing it to cool down slowly will get MUCH more life out of the turbo)

and to answer your question the only additional noise you'll really notice with a turbo are:

spool up (depends on the turbo *just think about the whine you here next to a big truck on the highway thats the turbo spooling up (spooling up refers to the turbine spinning faster)

Blow Off Valve noise (when you shift gears the B.O.V. purges all pressure from the piping system (piping from the turbo to the intake) it makes a pssssst noise (you can route the bov to a filter so it doesn't make any noise)

the general exhaust tone will increase a little bit (mostly at high rpm when the turbo is at full boost.) but it's not that much louder (some exhaust's make your car way louder)

As far as installation if you can find a place that will do it they will charge you A lot of $$$. i cant imagine you finding someone to do it (at a real shop) for less than 500 bucks probobly WAY higher though

Okay between a SC and a turbo which is more safer and also which is more overall BETTER or has each of them have their own benefits?

personally i prefer turbo. both of them do the same things but in their own way.

.....MY TAKE ON THIS TURBO ISSUE. providing that your car is in a decent condition for a turbo set-up, most maintenance are really common. i change my oil every 3000 miles like normal, but i use synthetic lube oil which is about twice the price of a regular oil change.

the GReddy turbo kit comes with an FCU (fuel control unit), otherwise known as black box (older model) or blue box (revised version). this device will prevent your stock ECU from reading boost therefore preventing CEL. it changes fuel scheduling on all 4 injectors to keep the car running "rich" while on boost status. this FCU pretty much semi-tunes your car for turbo set-up to avoid engine meltdown. this unit was just recently proven to support all the way up to 10 psi of boost setting. the dude hit mid 12's on his SOHC VTEC!.....with other additional mods ofcourse.

no intercooling necessary at 5.5 psi preset boost, unless you reside in a tropical area or hot location i.e. arizona dessert. ALTHOUGH, it is always nice and recommended to have one. i had one while @ 5.5 psi.

what the kit does NOT comprise WHICH i strongly recommend to have (at a minimum) are:
-boost gauge
-air/fuel ratio or EGT gauge
-turbo timer
-blow off valve

gotta have those gagues to monitor the set-up and efficiency.

Blow Off Valve will lengthen the life of the turbo by minimizing back spin during throttle body plate closure and minimize LAG. the closing of the throttle body will cause the compressed air to remain inside the charged pipe. compressed air will then rush back to the turbo and back spins it. the next time boost is demanded on the turbo, it will take longer for it to ratate on the right direction to fight the existing compressed air in the piping.....this is called transient LAG.

Turbo Timer, to elaborate on nonov's statement, let's the engine run at idle for a preset time which is normally no longer than 1 minute....i have mine set at 2 minutes just to be safer;). it does not hook up to any electronics that involves the turbo. it connects to the key ignition wiring of your car. it's function is vital to the life of the turbo. it SLOWLY cools down the turbo and lubrication. as the engine runs at idle, it will sustain oil flow to the turbo, therefore flushing hot oil back to the oil pan vice maintaining hot oil on the turbo oil line and turbo shaft. if hot oil is retained in the oil line and turbo shaft, it will eventually cook itself....which means, it will solidify clogging up the oil line and freezing up the turbo shaft......it's a disaster that can easily be prevented. no big deal.

your exhaust noise should stay the same if not, it should decrease in sound. mine DID. for the most part, the turbine section will absorb the exhaust gas flow and turbulence.

installation of the GReddy kit is a piece of cake. do it yourself and save over $500. shiet, i'll do it for you for $100 and a 6 pack....of cherry coke;). read my own fool proof written instructions:
page1: http://www.hondastyle.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=105
Page2: http://www.hondastyle.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=106

lastly, before you "up" the boost above 5.5 psi, be sure to conduct some research.......peace.

what causes an engine with turbo to blow up and detonation can be of many combination. for the most part, it comes down to "tuning". ample fuel and ignition is required especially on high boost level.

honestly man, turbo is the cheapest way to gain power
:bow: TURBO:yes:

alright what do you think should be a better choice a small turbocharger(decreases the lagging but will not do as well on higher speeds) or a large turbocharger(increase in lagging but boosts at higher speeds?

This is what i would do:

Even if your compression is ok i would swap it out for a DOHC motor. Even with an Ls your potential would be much greater. I would go with an off the shelf kit (anything but a greddy), try DRAG or Revhard. There are a few others but these remain the most popular and easieest to obtain. Crank the boost up to 10 psi and there you go. 300 at the wheels will take many cars in a street race.

How do you rebuild your engine for a turbo charger???

Oh yeah, and another thing, my car is automatic (please don't give me shyt), will turbo still be good?

Turbo will make your automatic car faster not as fast as a manual with turbo but still faster. If your going to run a kit like Greddy and keep the boost below 8psi and have a decent intercooler then you will not have to rebuild your engine which is only necessary when you start messing with high psi(10-12 and up). But the things you would do is replace the Pistons, rods, and sleeves with stronger ones. Which is very expensive, the parts alone will run something like $1200 if not a little more. Just to buy new sleeves and have them installed(not something most people can do themselves) is going to cost like $800-$1000. Best bet is to keep the boost down, and the air/fuel ratio on the rich side of the meter. Or of course an engine swap, which will give you the same if not a bigger increase in HP.

personally i'm a big "STOCK" fan. All mota is AMAZING... i would only turbo if i didn't have any other options avaible.

I think its almost cheating to turbo a mota... why not jsut get a better car instead of wasting time and money on making a small motor more powerful.

To see the looks on someone's face when they're driving a V-8 and get beat buy a 4-banger. Hahahah :D priceless, not that i could do it just yet, but soon.

Come on now this is getting carried away. The bottom line is that it dont matter how you get there but its how long it took you to get there. I dotn care if an all motor car runs a high 10 and i run a low 10. My car is faster and that is all that counts. SEcond place is the first loser. Im tired of hearing this all motor respect shit. The way i see it is all motor stupidity.