H22, B18C, or Turbo?
 

Posted this in OT, too-

I do this every six months or so- change my mind as to what direction I want to go with my motor. I know I'll never get the power I want out of my B18A, NA. So I'm going to have to make a sizable investment in order to get some real power. So what should I do? All three would be about the same price initially.

Turbo- power off the bat. 220 hp. Quick and easy. That, and I love the sound a BOV makes.

JDM H22- not as much power initially, around 170 hp to the wheels. The advantage is that the engine is still stock, and I can always add power with a good all motor build or a turbo later.

B18C- Not nearly as much power initially, around 145 hp. The advantage is that the swap will be easier, and I can put my B18A back in when I decide to sell the car, if I need to. Also, there are WAY more parts for the B18C- especially cams and valvetrain components.

All about $3500-$4000. So what do you guys think?

I wouldn't even think that you'd consider going turbo. You're always preaching All Motor. The B18C would be a good investment. The H22 are quick, but like you said there's not as many parts available for it.

I have a friend with a teg like yours and he's got and h22 in it..
It accelerates real hard!! However the handling is kinda slugish.
He's got bars and everything & he even tried reinforcing the structure thru many small ways.

But that engine was just too heavy.

I love the h22, hopefully one day i'll have one. But if handling is an issue for you, IMHO, you might wanna go towards a lighter engine...

b18c's..

Later on, you could do the necessary to add a turbo.

Eventhough your usually against turbo, I would go FI. I love the way turbos sound and the power they can make. Thats just me though. The choice all depends on what you want. You like all-motor so go with the H22.

i really would stay away from the h22.
its suc a biotch to put in.... im taking moving your brakelines and fule off your fire wall, to relocating your battery, and on top of that, the engine spins the wrong way- puts crazy stress on your cv shafts... and liek you said, isn't really worth it.

go turbo bro- you wont regret it

B18C the have real good compression for boostin bolts right in...plenty of parts....u will have a quick car i say B18C

H22A spinning the wrong way? It spins the same way every Honda motor in a car, with the exception of the F20C, have. That one confuses me, maybe you could clarify yourself.

As far as what I would do if I was you, turbo. I am the motor in your car can be built and insane amounts of boost can be added. You already have a good base to start with.

COMPARE AND SAVE !!!
 

I think he meant the K20. Actually, in the past, almost all Honda motors turned the 'wrong way'. The only ones that turned the 'right way' were the S2000 and the Insight, if I remember correctly. This has been fixed in the K-series engines, so Honda can sell motors to other car manufacturers. Not to digress, but remember, Honda is an engine manufacturer that just happens to make cars.



Anyway, if you want the ultimate swap, H22A is the bomb. If you don't the ultimate, take your pick.

H22A's can be boosted to 675+ HP with no problem. There are plenty of lesser swaps available for the faint of heart.

Here's a pic of a H22A/CiViC swap.



Don't listen to ppl that say you have to move your brake lines off the fire wall, relocate your battery, the engine spins the wrong way, the car won't turn, and all that horsesh!t. They don't know what they're talkin' about... :rolleyes:

I agree with BDC.. If moneys not a problem and you want tons of killer power and dont care about a little harder install, then go with the H22, then build it.. Its proven to be a strong powerhouse in the race world, esp. if you are taking it to the strip. If you want insane power go with a Boosted H22

I say go with the B18C ALL MOTOR!

I like F/I and all but a powerful N/A car is a lot more respected...

BTW, the B18Cs' aftermarket overshadows the H22As'

i don't know but i do know that i love the sound of a blof off. Its the $hit.

turbo u going to spend more then what u think the shit adds up ask any one with one that run 12's and 11's shit 13's to i know i got one $$$$$

h22 every day car and still fast with all the bolt on's u could run 13's 1/4 mile time's on slicks u will get a lot of wheel spin fun to drive

i say h22

most likey your car got high miles 90-93 so at least 100,000 miles so with the turbo somthin is going to come apart at high boost u got to run at least 10 psi to run 13's so if u got the money go turbo if not h22 all the way

can't go wrong with turbo!

OMG, we have an eclipse invasion on this site now... hekka laffs

10 psi to run a 13 second quater mile? What set up do you have. I hit 13s way back when i was only running 6 psi on street tires.

stock times 94-97 ran 15.9 good driver

90-93 ran 16.6 stock


your car is faster stock by at least a half of a sec

i love my h22, i think that would be your best bet, theres tons of parts for it, just not every company makes parts for each think like on the b serise. you may have to only use crower and jun (oh no, what a punishment) for some stuff, but you cant make a shitty h22 ;) expecialy if its in a teg. just think i run 15 flat stock, you'd run what? mid 14's with no mods, im mid 14's with mods you'd be low 14's to 13's with basic bolt ons. you cant tell me its not the best way to go. you could be in the low 13's with some basic internal work! street driven, perfectaly reliable. the h22 is the monster engine, get it, enjoy it!

no replacement for displacement, hehe
;)

H22 is gonna make a great all motor choice. its #1 advantage over the b-series is it actually makes decent torque for a hi-revving, low-displacment engine.

basic boltons will get you 13's.

if you wanna go crazy, the race scene is already displaying what kind of power is capable from the h22.

i wanted h22 and was planning on it, but after some research and thoughts going back and forth between GSR and LUDE I'm gonna go with the B18c,here's what it said.

H22A (Prelude VTEC) in any Civic/CRX/Integra
The H22A engine leans in the wrong direction
Civic engines have blocks that lean forward while the H22A block leans backwards, towards the firewall. Even though custom fabrication will mount engine, it's still not suitable for this chassis.
Fabrication issues
Custom fabrication is required to get the H22 engine to fit. The stock motor mounts have to be removed and new mounts relocated, making this an expensive job. Modern day cars are designed from the ground up as an integrated structure, and this includes the engine. Moving mounts around causes the structural characteristics to change. Furthermore, it also increases the chance of a screwup happening.
Chronic understeer
The heavy load up front will cause tons of understeer. Furthermore, the added power up front will cause the front end to lose traction too easily. What you have is a car that goes fast, only in a straight line.

http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/

but of course that's there opinion and me going GSR is mine, if you got the dough and want a badass hybrid go h22.Cause it's true there is no replacement for displacement.

TurbO/NOS?

i was takin bout natural cause thats what he wants right? N/A?anwayz turbo is always bod ass, but a turbo with a bigger displacement honda motor-sweet.H22/Turbo.....I only wish.

all things equal, a 5.0L engine running 20 lbs thru a 60-1 will always make more power than a 3.0L enigne running 20lbs thru the same 60-1.

there is no replacement for displacement.

you can turbo a small displacement engine to put out numbers similar to a larger displacement engine, but as soon as you do the same mods to the larger engine, it will again out perform the smaller one.

H22!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do eeeeeeeeeeeeeet. you know you want to. ::yes::

build it using quality internals, Quality Total Seal rings, ARP bolts, CROWER rods, port and polish, knife edge and lighten the crank, CRYO-TREAT EVERYTHING but the wrist pins, and run 15# all the time, 22 at the track. Just fer shits and giggles, put a 75-120 spray on top of that.



wait, was there a budget here? :rolleyes:

oh yeah, don't forget www.extrudehone.com and be sure to remember www.venom-performance.com

the H22 doesnt need serious customizing anymore, there are mount kits made so it drops right in - just with diff mounts. but then again you have a 2g teg so.....im not sure about that.

ok i was right....it still drops right in with a mount kit, no rewelding necessary for the H22.

Please dont ruin that nice G2 with a h22....the motor is too large for this car for normal driving...If you plan to race alot, this engine will be most reliable and provide the most torque. It is true that u will have major understeer as well as braking problems after the swap.....

invest in some prelude vtec rotors and nsx calipers

H22 and turbo...cant go wrong =)))))

H22 is 2.2L right?? Screw that no replacement for displacement crap and get the H22 (2.2), then lower the displacement to 2.1
and it will give you a higher RPM range. I VW in a magazine of mine lowered displacement from 2.2 to 2.1 and gave him a 10,200
redline. After you do that add a turbo and that will more than make up for the lost power of lowering the displacment. Just think, you could be one ofthe only people in the world to have a 2.1L H22. =)

Here's what I've decided:

No Turbo.

My engine turned 100,000 miles old last week (still not bad for a 1992!). Honda engines ares some of the most reliable out there, but I still don't trust my engine to take an 8 psi beating on a daily basis. I considered just turboing it, then saving money for a new(er) B18B. Then when I do eventually blow my engine, drop the the B18B in. But that's more hassle and more money than I want to deal with.

No H22.

I know, I know, it's a badass engine. I've got a friend with a JDM H22 in his EG, and we have video of him outrunning a C5 Vette. The problem: I'm a pussy. I'd have to give up my A/C and power steering. It's a daily driver, and these are not "luxuries" I'm willing to do without. As for the problems with handling, mounting, etc- don't believe any of it. The problem actually comes from the engine's higher center of gravity- not the direction in which it leans or anything else. While this does increase understeer (which all of our F/F vehicles have in abundance anyway), all you have to do to remedy the problem is invest in a beefier sway bar. $250, less understeer than stock. The mount is absolutely painless, as well.

No B18C.

Simply not enough power. To get this engine to run a good time, you have to invest thousands after you purchase it. I figure to get this engine to run the time I want, I'll spend at least $10K, including the puchase price of the engine. Thanks, but no thanks.

So what have I decided? Brace yourselves.

JDM B16A1. Bore the cylinders to 86 mm with Golden Eagle sleeves. B17A crank new from Acura. 12.0:1 CR pistons (remember, I'm at over 5,000 feet in elevation) from Endyn. Rods from Crower.

Where the hell did I come up with this? Check this out.
1. The price. My entire engine costs less than $5,000.
2. Look at what I get: sleeved cylinders, forged rods and pistons, and a brand new crank- basically a rebuilt engine with awesome internals. Reliability, as well as rev capabilities.
3. Good rod ratio and oversquare bore/stroke: This setup will take 11K easy, 12K with a little crank work. Again, reliability and rev capable.
4. 1891 cc's of diplacement. Take that, LS/VTEC fans.
5. VTEC bottom end: Already has the better lubrication and oil squirters that you have to tap an LS/VTEC for. Once again, reliability and rev happy.
6. Mine's DA chassis, B18A1, YS1 tranny (even though the tranny code only tells you what chassis it originally came from). The B16A1 is also a cable tranny. Could it get any easier?

I figure without doing any of the head work, this engine will hit mid-high 13s at sea level, probably high 14s-low 15s here, and around 180-190 whp at sea level, 150-160 whp here @ 9,000 RPM.

Put $3,000 into the head (P/P from Portflow, Toda Spec B or Jun Stage 2 cams, valvetrain), I can see high 11s- low 12s, 215+ whp, all motor.

The best part? Because of the good rod ratio, oversquare geometry, and strong internals, this engine would be extremely reliable- more reliable any STOCK Honda engine (now that's reliability!).

Any questions?

No questions... But I do have a comment...

Way to do your homework.. thats impressive..;) ::yes::

or get the crower stroker kit, and bring that upto a 2.6. get some more tq.

but the b16a1 will be a very very nice mod in a civic, altho i belive they have a mounting kit with power steering and ac for the h22. not sure but might wana check into it. nothing like a 200hp stock engine ;) and the h22's seem to be a little cheaper than b serise. get a jdm h22 with the lsd tranny. wow, u wont know what hit you. some how get the jdm traction control also. dumping at 4500 np would be nice.

I still say go turbo, but what ever you decide i wish you luck. = )

I'm vehemently opposed to stroking engines. Stroking an engine is a bad idea. It drastically lowers the rod ratio by increasing the stroke and shortening the rod at the same time. Good way to plow through a cylinder wall or break a connecting rod in half. AEBS does it, but that's in a full on drag car with more money in it than I make in a year. The only time I would ever stroke an engine would be with added deck height. That way I could increase stroke AND rod length in order to preserve good engine geometry.

We're not talking about any ole B16A here- we're talking about an 1891 cc B16A. And not into a Civic, but a DA Integra. If you can find me the kit that retains power steering and A/C, let me know- I'm very interested. An LSD tranny won't prevent wheel spin in this swap, especially at 4500 RPM. My friend with the JDM H22 in his EG spins if he lets the clutch out at more than about 3K (He also has an ACT 6 puck, and chirps it into 5th). As for the price, I'm the only one I know who can get a JDM H22 for the same price as a B18C.

YO josh that picture on your sig. Is that your ride man? damN dawg you done some major work to your ride. Nice nice nice. I love what you done with it. = ). hehehehe

LOL- only in my wildest dreams. That's the Team Stryker Integra. A true work of art, IMO. Check it out at www.importtuner.com in the "features" section, about 3/4 of the way down. Mugen JDM conversion (including black headlight housings and HID headlights), Mugen sideskirts, rear fascia, and spoiler. CF hood, full interior, system, and show quality engine bay.

Oh, and it's turbocharged.

It looks hella tite. I like it alot. I always had this thing for this those jdm front. Nice nice nice. i wanna steal me one of those bad boys.

not all jdm h22's have lsd equiped trannys. what price are you getting on jdm h22's?