The Talon vs. 2000 Turbocharged Civic
 

We pulled up to our usual racing spot at like 12:30 sunday night, and we saw one of my friends who transferred schools. I haven't seen him in a loooong time like 5 years. So, we got to talking and he showed us his car. A 2000 (dont know what model) civic with a 50 shot of dry nitrous, and a GReddy turbo. We raced, I honestly thought I was gonna lose. But he isn't stupid so he didn't use his nitrous. We went with strictly our engines not bottles. Anyway, we got into 1st gear and raced at a rolling start. He didn't even put up a fight! I was suprised. By the time I shifted I already had him beat...bad. My boost gauge read 20 psi the highest it has ever gone. We have it video taped, if I can figure out a way to transfer the video onto computer (it wasnt taken with a digital camera) i will post it. If anyone here knows how I will post the whole night of races. I also beat the following on this night, (it was the first time i took it to our race spot. A lot of races go on all night.)

96 Civic Hatch
?? Integra
95 Civic EX
?? Corolla <--hahaha (let him gun it for like 3 seconds and then went and still slaughtered him)
98 Mustang
?? Supra (non-turbo)

If anyone wants to hear any of those racing stories let me know and I will tell you, I dont feel like typing about them all right now. But they are all on tape, so if you know how to post it let me know.

AWD OWNZU. Also in you kill list you have a 96 SI, there were no si's in that year.:confused:

a turbo civic any other model besides si is just a mid to low 14 second car without major work...no big deal

race him from a stop with his shot..

Turbo Civic with DRY nitrous? Sounds dumb to me..

i agree sounds not true.. i commented in his other post that dry nitrous and turbo don't mix.. guess he forgot..

Hey man, im only telling you what he told me he had. Your acting like its impossible to have nitrous and turbo in the same car. Meanwhile at Carlisle (car show) just about ever eclipse there had both. So whatever man.

No one said you were lying...

Ok here's a littler forced induction + n20 lesson for you.

Forced induction is when you cram air into your engine, thus temporarily increasing the displacement.

Dry nitrous is where it just injects nitrous into your intake, freezing the air, thus getting more air into your engine at a cooler temperture also increasing the displacement.

Wet nitrous does the same thing as dry BUT it also injects it's own fuel to help the engine from running lean? You get what I am saying?

That's why everyone is skeptical.

Rule of thumb, if you are supercharged or turbocharged and want to add n20, do a wet kit and save yourself from purchasing or rebuilding a new motor.

Hasta.

Thats not true....at all. Im running nitrous through my air to air and so does 50% of others that have a air to air intercooler. In all reality the shot just cools everything down....not really creating a huge amount of HP gains. Granted it gives you gains but is certainly not harmfull.

yeah dude at the carlisle show man anything is possible. i saw a 90 civic dx hatch with a h22a1 in it and turboed with nitrous insane. and off topic i know someone with just a regular d16 motor in the 95 civic ex with a header dual piping exhaust rebuilt head, vtec controller, and a short shifter that runs low 14s. its so insane.

why would you split the exhaust on a 4 cylinder, does he like to lose power? and the last time i checked headwork cant turn a 17 second car into a low 14 car.

Nice kill.

Dry nitrous is possible on a turbo. 50 Shot is kinda high, but he's only telling you what the guy in the Civic had. Like cougarsvt said, it helps with the cooling of the air more than and HP gains.

heres why i would not run dry on a turbo car...

everyone KNOWS turbo equals added fuel demand... and turbo ALSO forces air into the motor...

well a dry nitrous kit DOES add extra fuel to compensate, BUT it adds it through the stock fuel lines, rail, and injectors... the injectors unless upgraded are already being taxed on boost.. so now you are going to spray on top of that and push them even more, in a lot of cases TOO far.. till they fail.. and you detonate..

the OTHER problem is this.. when forcing air into the intake path of a car AND you add a dry nitrous kit you are now doing even mor epotential damage.. the dry nitrous is now being force fed into the motor, and being PUSHED to the back cylinder this is causing uneven nitrous distribution, and since its a DRY kit the fuel is being added equally to EACH cylinder through the injectors, thus causing the last cylinder to lean out... like this..

you spray...
the fuel pressure rises (thats how dry kits work)
the increased fuel is EVENLY distributed to each cylinder
the nitrous is THROWN to the back cylinder by the force of the turbo
the last cylinder runs hot and lean..
thats the deal..

this does not happen with a wet kit because a wet kit does not use the stock fuel system...
it sprays gas and nitrous.. and the cars fuel pressure stays the same
so it is still unevenly distributed BUT so is the gas so it compensates preventing serious detonation

its easy to sit here and say dry nitrous is stupid, but id rather try to explain it for you...

i hope you guys spraying dry and turbo have invested in some real nice fuel pumps and injectors.. because if not... i can't see the stock shit holding too long..

hope that helps you understand better

so you have the NX line jetted to a 75 shot with no fuel compensation? thats what you are saying? does the fuel nozzle just sit open?

Thank OC Civic, I thought I'd explain it in a brief description, but obviously some people need the whole lesson, and you summed it all up. Good post.

-Redman

ROFLMAO

if you had even the SLIGHTEST automotive know how, you wouldn't..

dual exhaust on ANY 4 cyl car is COMPLETELY gay.. including an s2000... one exhaust manifold ONE exhaust section...

it looks to me that the s2k has only one exhaust pipe that is split at the axle for the "cool look", and it's not a true dual exhaust.

well logic said with it being a 4 cyl is had to split somewhere since there is only one manifold...

but this just makes it even MORE ghey.. lol

yeah my buddy had a 94 325i with the inline 6. but he has the piping split in 2 from the engine till right after the cat's then it goes into one piece to the exit. :yes:

i see it like this.... its JUST over kill, like i look at teh s2000 exhaust and ALL that pops in my head is WHY...
i mean there are a LOT of exhausts out there that are not "true" like a LOT meet and then split again like on some v-8s but the point is.. its just silly to me being on that car (the s2000)..

hon=rice
da=field :yes:

so if you decided to split your exhaust piping to make it dual on a 4cylinder do you lose HP or does it not effect it?..I really am in the dark on this one

it just makes no sense on a 4cyl car

unless its a v4 :D

Good lord no....im not dumb here! Ive got a custom (double sided) chip. Have you had much use with nitrous before?

[quote]Originally posted by oc civic
[b]heres why i would not run dry on a turbo car...

everyone KNOWS turbo equals added fuel demand... and turbo ALSO forces air into the motor...

well a dry nitrous kit DOES add extra fuel to compensate, BUT it adds it through the stock fuel lines, rail, and injectors... the injectors unless upgraded are already being taxed on boost.. so now you are going to spray on top of that and push them even more, in a lot of cases TOO far.. till they fail.. and you detonate..


You didnt just say that and believe it did you? NO nitrous adds fuel....hopfully i missread that!! Nitrous isnt really combustable brother....it expands the air in the combustion chamber. Again hopfully i missread that.
My car came with 17lbs injectors...now i have 45lbs injectors! I think i know what im doing when it comes to nitrous and boost...thanks for the info though.

let me try to help you...

first redman says "if you want turbo and nitrous you go wet"

then you say"Thats not true....at all. Im running nitrous "

implying that you have a dry kit, i then read your signature seeing you have an NX kit which is WET, so then i ask you how its a dry kit, you then tell me you have a double sided "chip" well i have no idea what the **** that is, id love to see pictures.. and who fabricated this custom "chip".. lol the NX nozzle comes with two ports one for fuel and one for nitrous...

use are you kidding? i think i was spraying my civic before the cougar even came out.. ;)

and ive installed everything from dry kits to (a current in works project) direct port on a small block with an independant fuel system.. so i would venture to say i know what im talking about.. nitrous i know a LOT about.. turbo.. i dont know shit..

your an idiot.. EVERY NITROUS KIT ON THE MARKET ADDS EXTRA FUEL.. it is VERY obvious you have NO clue... if your kit added no extra fuel your motor would blow up, well not blow up... actualy it would ping/detonate and break..

[quote]Originally posted by cougarsvt
[b]

actualy the way nitrous works... ill try to explain it for you sinse you have not a clue (i figured that out after you said that nitrous kits do not increase fuel... a motor makes power from fuel air and spark.. as you ad one you need to add the others to make up for it.. in other words... you add a turbo... you need some type of fmu BECAUSE the turbo is forcing in more air more air means that more fuel can be added... too much fuel the motor runs rich, too little and the motor runs lean and detonates, or pings.. adn eventualy breaks..

When you heat nitrous oxide to about 565 degrees (im pretty sure that is the temp, i MAY be SLIGHTLY off) it begins to break down... it breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen (obviously)..so when you "spray" nitrous oxide into the motor more oxygen is available during combustion. Because you have more oxygen, you can also inject more fuel, allowing the same engine to produce more power. but you MUST compensate for the added oxygen by adding more fuel.. or you will lean out..

better call them up and tell them they are wrong..
;)

you are too much fun.. i could spend all day making fun of you

if your saying that the turbo is going to force the nitrous into the far cylinder then why isnt the plain air being forced into the far cylinder? which would also result in uneven air/fuel across the cylinders.

also i've heard quite a few bad things about wet kits and Hondas because the IM cant flow the fuel correctly, so the nitrous goes evenly to the cylinders but the fuel doesnt.

maybe that guy did have upgraded injectors/fuelpump.

actualy dry nitrous in general is a poor system due to its handling of the fuel demand...

ive never heard ANYTHING bad about a wet kit.. in fact never heard anything bad about any nitrous kit used and installed corectly for the right application..

Ok.....i have no clue how your Honda works my friend but giving a nozzel for fuel is NOT giving your motor more gas. I own a Ford and im almost sure 90% of other cars work the same way. Let me explain...ALL newer cars have fuel injectors and they are NOT mechanical...hince add all the fuel you want and only the amount that your PCM is programmed to tell your injectors to pulse is the amount that will be delivered to the motor. Thats why putting a fuel regulator on your car will not do crap without larger injectors. And even at that you must either chip your car or reprogram your Maf.
If you havnt seen a double sided chip your NOT a installer of performance products. Call any chip maker and they will correct you on that. OR go to Fordchips and look it up...."double sided" chips are there. Hell they have making double sided chips for trucks for years!
Oh....my kit is NOT wet....LOL your funny.

Im sure after rereading i'll post again and tear your so called "no all about Nitrous" apart.
Oh...and please dont get pissy...this is just a discusion about performance products. Get hatefull and i wont post back. Unless thats what you want of course :rolleyes:

when you have a fuel solonoid and a nitrous solonoid the way the kit works is it sprays gas and nitrous... end of story ..


you are wrong... on a dry kit fuel pressure is increased and the car DOES realize that increase.. if what you are saying is true then there would be no reason to have a nitrous pressure regulator on a nitrous kit...



chips are gay let me explain why... unless you are completely done modifying it then how it is burnt today will not help three weeks from now... an adjustable fuel computer is MUCH more effective.. chips... yeah we dont use those here..



this has NOTHING to do with nitrous



so its a dry NX kit.. can i see pics please.. im curious...




so you will tear my "no" all about nitrous.. no i don't KNOW all about nitrous.. but i sure as hell KNOW more than you about it..

[sarcasm]guess you would know better than the makers of the kit [/sarcasm]:rolleyes:

guess you know better than NOS also... silly NOS is using extra fuel through injectors also.. better call them and tell them that it doesn't work..:rolleyes: btw more sarcasm..

this is some good stuff... why can't people just understand the facts and stop going by their instincts? I think the only way that cougar dude is running a dry kit on whatever his car is (turbo or supercharged?) would be with an EMS or FMU... Which he could be running (I didn't read your siggy yet, so sue me.)

For people to think that nitrous systems don't add fuel to compensate for the air distrubution is plain ignorance. And if you think that way, you really need to go do some research.

On my Mazda MX6 GT (Turbo) I have an ECU Chip, although it's not "double-sided" as I don't see how that would work seeings how there's usual only pins on one side to plug in to the circuit board.. But what it does is takes my fuel and boost cut away. Everything else is controller by my Holley FMU, and when I upgrade to a bigger turbo I will most likely get the Motec M4 Programmable ECU so I can run the bigger turbo on any boost I choose and if I want add some N20 as well.

correct me if i am wrong but those are boost depandant SSSOOO... would not add extra fuel for the nitrous also just the boost.. i mean i may be wrong bu ti dont think that i am....

Called a sales pitch....end of story. You must be the same person that really thinks intakes add 15HP's to.:rolleyes:

LOL...ok if your that hard up call Ford ...sheesh. Your PCM nor Maf will recognize the Nitrous....period!! Why do you think we have Mafs and PCM's...to control what happens to your motor. You can not physically change this unless you chip or FMU. Or your some freak show performance man that can talk your PCM into doing something different.


By the way double sided chips have to be physically removed then turned around and reinstalled.