V8's vs. Imports
 

Flame away.....

I don't understand what the big deal is? Both types of cars can be built to move as fast as your money can afford to make them go. I don't have a single problem with American muscle car enthusiasts. It's just the ones that constantly rip on import enthusiasts for doing what we do. I love cars period, I own a 1965 GTO, a Volkswagon Jetta and a Honda Del Sol. I only defend myself when people say that import cars are slow and should be left that way.

So flame away V8 guys. I'll see you on the street.

i know its not going to stay this way.. but guys.. try to keep it civalized... argue, have heated debates, but dont personaly attack. and anyone who might get offended.. dont read any farther.. its your fault now if you do. i will keep my eye on this to make sure it stays tamed... if someone starts attacking dont be supprised if one of the mods edits the post to make it more subject oreinted. with that said...... let the games begin :D

I have a feeling the V8 guys aren't going to post in here at all. It seems they only lurk in the kills forum waiting for someone to tell a story about spanking a V8, we'll see though.

oh and I promise not to make any personal attacks... :rolleyes:

when i saw this thread i thought about hitting the close button, but i see that's not the case :cool:

Go ahead flame away!

Im not responsible for what happens in here.. And I dont want to see any sh*t anywhere else on this bored. If you want to argue do it here.

I hope you guys finally figure out who has the largest package.. Cause I sick of hearing about it..:rolleyes:

the question itself is flawed the reason v8 guys get so pissy about little honda's is...

a honda with 3million dollars put into it will not beable to run with dragracing v8's period. there is absolutely no such thing as a 4cyl that can run under 6sec 1/4 (not possitive but there is a number which 4 bangers cannot seem to get below while the v8's do it all day long (yes there is also a limit to how fast a v8 can go as well but it's much faster than the limit of the 4))

also cuz if your driving around in a v8 mustang or camaro and your constantly confronted with dumb kids trying to race you who have NO chance of beating you. And if they are capable of beating your v8 yer pissed cuz some punk kid just beat your ass with a 4banger.

Another reason any v8 stock has WAY more potential than a 4 banger especially a honda. if you have a S2000 and 100hp/L where do you go from there (yes you can obviously get way more horsepower but not n/a). where as a 94-95 mustang cobra has 49hp/L It has much more potential for improvement. you put an i/h/e on a mustang and your gunna get REAL hp gains (40-100hp (estimate))

they cant do donuts can't go sideways on the launch they're just to easy to control and drive. (cuz they have more susp/handling then they have power. and even if they have nasty power it's going to the front wheels which is easy to control)

the biggest of all though is torque. honda's and most other 4 cyl's just don't have it. also unless you got a type r you have no lsd. this makes for awful easy pot shot's about our pirate burnouts (peg-legged). If you can even do that I know i can't 93 civic ex with i/e

ok... i can tell you've never tried launching a higher tq honda engine.. such as a h22. you get crazy wheel hop from your launchs if you dont do them right. ive herd its harder to launch a h22 becuase the way the tq curve goes.. you get your mini spin off the line to get the tires going and when you hook up.. the enging shifts hard back because its lateraly mounted, then the axles move, since its connected to the engine lateraly, and then the wheels get the ability to hop.. possibly breaking motor mounts, throwing the car out of gear, breaking axles.. and so on. then.. lets say you get a nice launch.. then you have the wonderful tq steer from a h22 tranny. shifting into 2nd you risk hopping again and the wheel will jerk hard to your right because of the axles being different lenghts and the stock diff not putting the power out evenly. 3rd gear probobly the worst for tq steer but you dont have to worry about hopping. ok.. now the launch. domestics have a high tq peak low in the rpms then it tapers off. on a h22 the tq curve is gradualy increasing to about 6800rpms.. what doe this mean? well... in a domestic if you loose traction.. your probobly past your peak tq lvl.. so the power to the ground will eventualy get to where if you ride it out.. you'll grab and haull ass. now on mine.. its going to get gradualy more and more powerful so i'll never get traction untill i let off a tiny bit to about 15-20% throttle to let the tq drop and have the tires grab... but then.. usualy wheel hop. domestics are more potential than 4 cly... but not a inline 6 turbo IMO. the supras running 9's on stock bottom ends at over 160mph and running 6's built.. rx7's running 8s on a street body, the old 540 datsuns running 5's or 6's with a 3 rotor rotory engine..... all RWD but thats what we are talking about import vs. domestic... not honda vs. domestic. in that race... domestics win strait line.. and certain hondas will win autox over certain domestics (note.. z06 owns)

Saying that a 4 cylinder will never run under 6 seconds with V8s is just plain wrong. Have you seen the prostreet toyota celica yet? I believe it's running around 6 seconds with a fully built custom 4 cylinder motor. So guess again.

And it is much harder to launch a front wheel drive car then a rear wheel drive car. In a rear wheel drive car you don't have to deal with issues like torque steer. Also try hooking up on a launch in a front wheel drive car when all your weight is shifting to the rear wheels.

You have to give props to competitive four cylinder racers. Look at people like Bergenholtz who was the first to run under 10's with a honda. I mean it's easy to make a Mustang or other V8 run 10's, but a Honda is car that no one ever though would be able to pull this off and it did. So saying imports will never be able to run in the 6 second bracket is just a bad guess. Someone just like you said a honda couldn't run tens years ago and guess what? A ton of people sure proved him wrong.

its like saying why build a v8 when you can put a turbo on a hyabusa for cheaper and smoke everything.a v8 cannot compete with a built bike.. i mean they run 11's our of the box?

Good point 4th gen. I think I'm going to sell my car, buy a bike and then smack talk the V8 guys because I'll be walking them all day long with a 4 cylinder that is smaller then their steering wheel.

by the way if that is your prelude in your signature it's fooking sweet man. Love the black car with the gold wheels. I've always been a fan of preludes.

yup.. thats mine. dosnt show the cf too well in that pic.

even if it didn't have CF it still looks great.

thanx man.. the graphite/gunmetal rims on your car look good too. im a fan of dark rims

Yeah, those rims on my car came white. I decided to refinish them in graphite.

Here's a before and after picture..

Do you honestly need any more than the minumual torque? Do you plan on towing say.....A 22 ft horse trailer with the honda?

There really is no need for bottom end torque when you have a quick revving motor that redlines at 8k. Torque helps on rear drive cars, but on front drive it only causes problems. Unless you are running slicks with upgraded halfshafts.

you have no lsd? you dont need a type-r to throw on an lsd, aftermarket companies do make them.

yes V8's have more potential, i should hope so.
compare the price of a 00 Mustang GT to a 00 Civic CX hatch. you can either spend the whole amount on the stang, or on the civic + mods. and we are talking a GOOD price difference here. probably about $9k.
for that price difference, if the owner isnt a F&F vinyl freak, that civic will EAT the mustang every day of the week.

but then again, why care so much? a lot of V8 guys are real cool and just become dicks when the little 4cyl idiots come out of the woodwork and start talkin shit about mustangs/camaros and thinking they are fast when they have 70hp under the hood of their 93 Civic CX.
but sometimes, people are just jerks because they have nothing better to do and feel they need to make up for their minimal manhood.

its never going to stop, everyone will never grow up, its impossible...evolution hasnt gotten that far yet

Buy your bike.. I will still beat you....

"its never going to stop, everyone will never grow up, its impossible...evolution hasnt gotten that far yet"

Stop by some of the better V8 Domestic boards... the maturity level there will blow you away (compared to this board at least)

lol guest...it just seems that way...we didn't invite all the angry v8 owners to come here and talk shit to us...they came on their own...so don't be saying that stuff to us. I know for a fact, that NONE of the true HS members go into other boards talking shit because they're dicks...

:rolleyes: & yanno, it's funny...I dont know about anyone else, but I mostly hear the BIG motor cars like V-8's talkin bad about ricers... It's usually not us talkin bad about them. Import people seem to be more mellow & accepting.
That's why I love us so much! :bow:

i notice though the import vs. domestic thing usually never goes right, it turns into honda vs. domestic. guess some of the V8 guys fear the power of a 1.3L rotary or the V6 Supra TT or a Skyline so much that they bag on the lesser cars instead.
but it goes vice versa with the little stock honda guys thinking they are the shit because they drive a honda and that they are the fastest in the world.

as for going on V8 boards, ive been on a few, i remember some guy being called out by a turbo civic si and the si beat him, i think he stopped talking after that. :D

and yeah, some V8's are capable of running very fast and still being streetable....ok? whats your point? why should that give you the right to talk shit to other people doing their own thing? its like you need the attention of people doing the same thing you are doing otherwise you are lonely.

*shrugs*

very well said Hybrid.

The sad part is, I get revved at more by V8 drivers then I do import drivers. My car isnt fast and I know it. It makes me sick!:rolleyes:

yup we all remeber that.

oh.. i dont think you've seen built busa's running at the track.. they litterealy destroy muscel cars... its not even funny

busas also go about 194 mph stock, and seriously its not fair to compare bikes to cars, i mean its a bike! the 2000 kawasaki zx-9r weighs 466lb.s, and has 131.4 hp@10,500rpm...thats cheating to race them against a car. lets stick to cars. and im staying out of this one cos its drag racing talk

Not really.. what they call the fastest street bike, the honda 1100xx only does the 1/4 mile in 10.2 seconds.. fast, but not as fast as you think...

see im not gonna say anything but its stock and street legal...right off the showroom these are the numbers for bikes
(ive got an issue of motor cyclist)
cbr929rr...10.31
zx-9r........10.261
gsxr-750..10.263
yzf-r1.......10.29 1/4 mile stock, and theyre all under $10,299
thats just why i dont think they should be compared(not siding with imports or domestics)

Well considering their weight, and hp, I feel privilaged to get even close to these numbers..

k

What? Your Honda is not a bike, revving to 13k in half a second. Every car needs torque to launch properly. If you don't have low end torque, or a hyper-low reciprocating mass motor, you're not going to cut a good short time, and you won't ET well.

As for being scared of a 1.3l rotary or a Skyline, the rotaries' around here don't run long enough to be a challenge, and I'm looking forward to a Skyline run. For all the talk, and I am a Skyline fan, it's main purpose is not street-racing. From what I understand, in mostly stock form, it's not that much of a drag racer. As for modded-out ones, sure, they get quick. I've also only seen two 500HP+ Skylines, and both of those came and left Moroso Motorsports Park on trailers. So, I'm confident that I'll feed any Skyline I run across hot lunch. :)

Another main import v. domestic point: the tWisTiEEs. Did I spell that correctly? Fact is, gentlemen, most modern domestic sportscars are not the cows of your father's generation. My T/A has a 52/48 weight balance, a well-adjusted factory suspension, and will corner in excess of .9G with the tyres I have on it now. Anybody who thinks domestics aren't capable in this area are more than welcome to come autoX'ing with me. Meanwhilst, FWD imports are inherently dealing with a traction deficit because the same tyres are trying to turn and apply acceleration simultaneously.

I'm more of an enthusiast-artiste, enjoying the work people have put into their cars for what it is, an expression of that person's personality.

Imports can be made fast. Domestics can be made fast. The domestic will be cheaper, and the ratios are just higher. For every fast import, there's 75-80 others with bodykits' and fart cans spouting mag statistics, misconstruing facts, and gang-banging about screaming something about representing their props. For every fast domestic, there's maybe ten. Granted, there's a higher concentration of mullets in the domestic camp, but ricers have that whole visor thing going. Same concept, different application.

Can't we all just get along?

Cheers,
Max
Note: Please phrase all replies in English, and spellcheck. It's just good form.

Exactly what he said.. all cars require torque..and to maintain a certain level of hp at a certain rpm your can will require a certain amount of tq. If I can find the formula i will give you the link..

Formula is:

HP = (TQ*RPMS)/5252

I'm not saying that torque isn't a factor, I was simply stating that a low revving motor will require more torque to get up to speed as fast as a high revving motor with a smaller ammount of torque. In a low revving motor you are going to have to shift more frequently, therefor your torque curve better be a good one. In a high revving motor you aren't going to have to shift as often, and when you do shift at 8K your rpm's aren't going to drop any further then 4-5K. In a low revving motor when you shift at 5-6K you are looking at starting the next gear around around 2-3K. Think about it.

Also he more weight you have to pull the more torque you will need to get it goeing.

Why does everyone keep the import vs. american arguement going???Is ther an energizer bunny around that I missed???

Moneytalks and bullshit walks.Wanna go fast bring the cash.Theres Briggs and Stratton lawnmower motors running low 8sec 1/8 miles.You take what ever you own and it'll go as fast as you can earn money.Wanna have good handleing cough up the cash.

Guess what you wanna talk about smart the guy who uses his head to go fast not his wallet.Thats a Hotrodder back in the 50s there were no aftermarket suppliers and such.Atleast not like today anyways.Those guys made 5000lb slugs go fast for nothing,maybe an engine swap or heads off a truck on a car,rground cam etc...There was no $800 dno tuned exhuasts and chips and Nitrous.I find it hilarious when I go to the track and see these cars w/ aftermarket heads,tubbed,aluminum interior,fiberglass this and that etc...When I come from the school of welded spiders,factory parts,and weights in the trunk. I've watched people kick ass b using there heads not the wallets.So when I run my car no its not the fastest but its but the speed to $$$ ratio is high.
My point is going fast with bolt on parts ther is no arguement.Its just a matter of who can afford more of them.Thats were racing sucks there i no more whos gonna creat the new winninmg edge its just,pick a ETrange and buy these parts.

ive seen more than a handful of bikes running 7's or 6's at moroso down in WPB.. not nearly as many domestics doing that

To elaberate my point I've been very interested in nastalgia drags lately.These guys used to do crazy creative stuff.There were no prepackaged stroker kits.Someone had to think and go damn wonder what a 283crank in a 327 will do??Look at the old gassers see some ofthe funky position they put them motors and drivelines in.Somebody thinking about weight transfer.Things weren't as eas as buy a kit for traction,buy a motor kit etc..

I love those old hot rodders too. They are the ones that started it all. I wish I could afford to get into racing old tbuckets and stuff, but that is almost more expensive then building an import car. More satisfying in the end? Maybe, but more expensive none the less.

:bow: