you are loyal to a goverment that heartlessly eliminated HUNDREDS of thousands of CIVILLIANS with TWO bombs.. a country that SECRETLY violates pacts it makes.. a country who ENSLAVED more people than you can count because we as a nation BELIEVED people of african decent could not possibly be equal to us light skin folks of european decent, a country who feels the need to shove its views down the throats of others.. my point is simple.. EVERY country in the world has skeletons in its closet.. PAST PRESENT and future... a country that has homeless starving to death on the streets miles away from a factory making MILLION dollar bombs...

i say it a THOUSAND times.. stop throwing stones from the glass house...

i really hope the nations of the world do not judge us on the actions of our dictator....

Get th F--k out of our country then if u feel like that----- Yes our country is not perfect, far from - but it is still the land of opertunity.. Our country grows as do we- every one makes mistakes or is at one time: ignorant, selfish,arrogant etc. and our country is ran by people, so don't expect perfection.

oh i get it... its ok for the US to make mistakes.. (turture, slavery, oppresion, violation of world law, inhumainity, MASS slaughter, genocide..) but its not ok for others.. heres a reality check for you..i would bet in our "wars" we have killed more innocent people than saddam has, and when i say innocent i mean civilians NOT in violation of country or international law, is saddam a GOOD man??? NO of course not.. does he need to be taken out of power.. YES is it our job to be involved.. ABSOLUTELY NOT..... you live in hawaii?? you should be REALLY concerned.. N. korea is just a stone throw away...:yes: ;)

thats a very UNAMERICAN view.. similar to those of NAZI germany.. "if you do not believe in us.. OUT with you or execution.. " [sarcasm]you share similar beliefs with some real nobel people[/sarcasm]

:moon:

damn this thread got out of control

Yes it did.

If you think like this, you have no business leeching off of the freedoms and wrights you have as an american citizen

If you think dropping an atomic weapon on japan was a bad idea, you are an IDIOT. Would you rather the US army have lead a grownd war against japan? This would have caused many more AMERICAN casualties - if you think this way, you should consider moving.

How as an American citizen can you tell me that attacking Iraq, a nation hostile to the US who has been involved in shaddy A** business for over a century, is a wrong or unjust thing to do.

Sure the US has made mistakes - we admit it and have changed as a country and a nation - Name one other nation where and Ethnic group or other powerless social minority has the ability to change a nation through peacefull non-cooperation?

Saddam is an EVIL person who should not be allowed to continue wasting fresh air.

If EVERY country has SKELETONS in its closet, why are you even arguing with me in the first place? Why should world events even consern a passivist such as yourself?

This really disturbs me:

We are a country of free speach, free elections, equal rights, a country built on freedom.

Iraq does not have free anything - Saddam forces more than just views down the throats of his people [Devistating Chemical Weapons].

How as a human being can you watch others suffer and not feel a sence of their pain - what is wrong with you?

If u were and Iraqi, you'd be Damn glad Saddam is about to be kicked out of office - or maybe not, your views are quite strange - you might like getting oppressed by a dictator or communist govt.

i mean, those govts do not do things in secret, they dont act in a secretive manner, their evil deeds are obvious.

Okay, stop and think about this..

The reason why we need to get Saddam out of office isnt as much as he is a danger to us, just yet. But more to every country in the middle east Kawait, Isreal, and everything else that surrounds them. Unless we do something about him he will begin to take over that area. Could be sooner, it could be later but its bound to happen.

We being a (for the most part) Christian country will try to keep Isreal (Holy Land) safe from Saddam. Believe me if you want, but Hitler did it in Germany, Saddam will do it in the Middle East.

As for the UN, have you noticed the people that wont support us are all the people we have assisted in saving thier butts many times in past wars. Thats strange.. :o

And lets not forget the fact that people are beginning to change thier tunes and move over to our side now. Hrm.. They are launching SCUDS that they dont have, at our troops.. That too is very strange..:paranoid:

well i bet there is more to it than it just meets the eye. i'm sure the warheads and chemical weapons aren't the only reason to go there (and don't bring the oil in)

Yeah, he made our President's daddy look bad and costed him an election. :yes:

As much as people would like to pin that on Bush, he is not and does not give the slightest hint of doing this for his father.

Direct quote from George Bush:

"We're talking about a man who tried to kill my father here."

Nope, no hint at all :mad:

maybe im wrong here, but some of those countries have interests with iraq. Doesnt France have an oil deal with Iraq... no wonder they dont want the war:rolleyes:

Their countries, their business. I can't believe all these people getting mad at France. Screw 'em, it's not like they'd be any help anyway.

Anyone? Anyone?

oh wow, i have hours of fun to play with the past posts.... here i go..




once again you FAILED to show saddam is a threat to US soil. you cannot go to war on a hunch. if you think that some poeple might be attacked because of weapons some dictator MIGHT have.... that is VERY weak. we will kill iraqi civiliansin this war, there will be casualties of war that are very unnessisary, over something that is non of the US's business yet. once saddam attacks a mid-east country in an inhumane way or shows to be a threat to a contry that cannot defend its self, then the UN would set in to put the foot down.

im glad you are SO self centered that the death of 350000 japanise civilans was accepatble instead of attacking the japanise army. if would be just like if saddam desided that instead of attacking our army and risk loosing iraqi's that he just nuke newyork and LA. it would save his peoples lives, and kill less americans, but you know what, its ****ING WRONG.

The laws of america are not the laws of the world. you say you want freedom, but everytime someone disagrees with you, you tell them to go live in iraq with our dictator we love, well, that sure as hell doesnt sound like someone who believes in freedom to me. you are SUCH a hypocrate. you say one thing, but contradict it. you want to go to war to save innocent american lives at the cost of US diplomacy with the world, and the loss of US troops and civilians around the world. this has so much more potential of springing terrorist attacks by rouge groups of iraqi's because of the horsesh!t that bush is pushing.

you want to talk about a country that REALLY ****ed its people over.. WE DID. ever herd of the american indians? they were living peacfully here then europeans came and enslaved them. our government had military missions to kill native americans just because we wanted their land. that was genocide to our people. they showed no threat other than fear we put into them because of attacking them. we can look at colenel mustard and his campains chasing indans all over america, or the trail of tears where president jackson moved all the cherokee indians form their homes to a spot of land far away. today even we have our indian concentraion camps(or reserves, however you want to look at them) where we gave them a very small portion of land for them to live on.

thats very old though, how about something more recent... like segragation of blacks. they were put in different schools, treated like crap, beaten, denyed basic human needs, killed for someone elses crime, touchered, told they were less human than whites and this was just 40 years ago. we are the most advanced country in the world, and that is through experience. you cannot tell a kid that something is hot and expect him to believe you without testing it. when we were developing our country through the past few 100 years, europeans didnt have the same beliefes as us, but you know what, it was our country, not theirs they knew their place and only stepped in when it involved endagerment to their colonies or poeple in "the new world"

i am not a supporter of saddam, and i do not agree with what he does. but it is not my business. george washington said that foriegn affairs would be the downfall of this nation. lets not prove him right. nothing will kill world support with the USA more than if we were wrong in this matter. how is it going to look if we once again murder civilans because of what we THOUGHT was best for the world. i bet the american indians or african americans understand that a different culture isnt a lower one that deserves to die.

how about next time you preach for peace and unity in the world, you not do it by going to war when there are alternative methods of dealing with issues

I've got nothing to add to that.

Until someone makes a dumbass reply. Then I'll be back. :yes:

Keep it up man:smoking:

Some of you are SO ****ing dense ,,,, im NOT against war.. I am FOR international law... I am for a JUST and fair process. not wars based on personal vendetta not one of you has sited a SUBSTANTIAL reason for war.... ONE MORE TIME FOR THE SLOWER PEOPLE IN THE ROOM.

Saddam SHOULD be removed, that is my personal opinion, it is ALSO my personal opinion that it is NOT our job to do it.

I also believe when we impose our "freedoms" GOOD or BAD, on other countries that is EQUALLY "nazi" like... Iraq has a government, we have NO business being involved in there politics...

I ALSO DO believe he had weapons that were in violation of the UN LAWS, BUT WE VIOLATE INTERNATIONAL LAW AS WELL..so what the hell does that prove....

I IN NO WAY SUPPORT HIM, BUT you need to examine ALL sides of the fence to UNDERSTAND things... AND understanding things IS SO important..

case in point.. we thought killing 300 THOUSAND plus INNOCENT civilians would make Japan see our way, WELL maybe the "terrorist" felt that in there "holy war" that the blood shed of a few thousand would wake up America to there "evil" ways ... it's ALL subjective, right and wrong is subjective ... and yes hate me if you want, BUT i think it is WAY more ****ed up to kill a BABY, MOTHER, CHILDREN, and other civilians (who may not even agree with war) than a soldier (a person who COMMITS to FIGHTING in a war our soldiers, Iraqis soldiers, whatever)... don't freak out, AS I have told MANY military people (some of which are on this board) i COMPLETELY support them, but I do NOT support the war....

The fact that Iraq poses a major threat to the middle east makes them a threat to the rest of the world. It is a smart move of our govt to deal with this problem now instead of after Saddam takes over his surrounding neighbors and becomes more powerfull/aquires more weapons.

If you think that the US should not engage in this you are wrong.

Germany never DIRECTLY attacked us before we entered the 2nd world war, so i guess we should have just stayed out of the European theater and just fought Japan.

please elaborate, you fail to make teh sence

Sorry about that, i meant to type that Since Iraq is a major threat to the MIDDLE EAST makes them a threat to the rest of the world.

he was attacking other countries ACTIVELY, and occupying them... similar to waht saddam did in kuwait.. but we drove him out of kuwait.. SO... i still fail to see the comparison...

Ahem...Japan was Germany's main ally. Your ally attacked us means you attacked us.

And if anyone brings up the :bs: that Osama and Saddam are allies I will bug out.

So, if we are allies with France, and we attack Iraq, then France has also attacked Iraq?

hey anyone know the BIGGEST similarity between saddam and hitler.. i bet you don't.. lol ill post it in a few minutes.. see if any of you can guess..

umm, they both wanna take over the world?

ps - oc civic - what's your nitrous shot at? Just wondering.

Yes, its called guilty by association...
;)

the bush family has had STRONG trade and money relationships with both HITLER, AND SADDAM...


http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

interesting the MORE you dig the MORE crooked people are.. im starting to think this MIGHT just be about money after all.. lol

If France and us have been traipsing all over the globe taking over other nations previously? Absolutely.

Der

i run a 60 OR 70 depending on how im feeling.. lol its adjustable from 50-70

mother of ownage :yes:

hmm whys it so quiet all of the sudden...;)

because you cannot have a decent hoest reply about the bush family intentions after that tid-bit of information... maybe:cool:

Oh yeah. See, I always tend to think that people already know this. I forget that not many are aware.:cool:

i guess the bush family is not too concerned with Humanity, and the suffering of a nation when it is lining there pockets... eh.. no real surprise there.... TYPICAL politician...

:yes: Pretty much..:crazy:

Feelin' hot hot hot!

.

Huh?

I just needed to add something that I found amusing. All these tense arguments suck.

I'm with ya there. So thanks then. :yes:

lets keep this thread to a whore minimum. it is a good debate we are having, and i dont want to see it lost because of a few pages of whorage

Just trying to lighten up I think he was. No biggie, better than all out fighting. Though that will be back in a minute I'm sure. :yes:

i just dont want this to get way off topic and lose the great debate going on.

Quite true, this is a good debate - plus those pages of whoring [motivation?] helped me get over 400 posts lol.

But yes, i am glad we have not gotten too out of hand over this discussion.

Well, to get us back on track here's something i just thought of:

If you see an Old deffensless Lady getting beat up by somebody Half your size, what would you do?

Would you say, "that guy is not a threat to me, so i will not attack him, after all, i have gotten into fights before." ???

of corse not, if you had any decency, you would help the old lady out and kick the ______ outta that guy who's no where near as big as you.

You could look at the people Saddam opresses as the Old defenseless lady, and we are the United States - what is the right thing to do?

"opposition to your beliefs only makes you question who you are"

the point i AND chris make.. is are you SURE who the bully really is...?????? look at the US gov, and tell me in ALL honesty its not guilty of being the bully on MORE than SEVERAL occasions...

and on a side note would you attack the bully if you thought that his bully friends would come back and kill your family and children in there sleep??? im fron philedelphia, go there and try that shit.. go intervene in a mugging... ill bring flowers to your funeral;)