So, how many of you guys think we shouldn't even be over here? And why?

Next tie your in my area can you give me a lift to la la land? You seem to like it so I figure I'll try it.

Yeah...my bad...I was a little drunk when I wrote that (as per usual). And thanks BTW.

Kool-Aid...right here. I think our presence there goes only to insult the Iraqi people and to undermine their own responsibilities as a polity to determine their own destinies. Like SolPol's quote of Jefferson says (a summary, at least) it's the responsibility of the citizens of a given nation to decide their own goverment. I can't count how many times I've said that here. It's not our job to change their government for them any less than the opposite would be true. The first time we were there at least we had an excuse...we came in AFTER they invaded Kuwait. How good that excuse is can be debated, but at least we were sort of on a goodwill mission. The bottom line? It's extremely unethical to force our will upon another country half way across the globe when they are just as capable of effecting such change themselves if they wanted it bad enough. Nevertheless we're willing to throw our own men and women into harm's way and hypocritically shake our heads when they make the ultimate sacrifice. By that I don't mean that they deserved to die or that anyone should be happy in such a situation, but if you support a war you better be willing to accept death as part of it. If you're sick of seeing your friends and neighbors or even strangers come home in coffins then maybe it's time to re-examine your stance on this or any war. War isn't about who's right...it's about who's left.

Why do you think it's to change their government?

It is to change their government. Saddam was the government and we didn't like him. Get rid of Saddam and install a "friendly" regime.

War isn't about who's right...it's about who's left. Good shit man, I like that.

V8,

I'm in La La land because I have a moral/ethical objection to our country imposing it's will onto another? :rolleyes:

Bush is Satan. To me anyway. Maybe I don't express it as well as some others, but I think this whole "war" is freakin' ridiculous.

If someone/something poses a signifigant threat then remove the threat. The fact you don't think saddam was not a threat at all is very sad.

He could NEVER have touched this country and you know it man.

He posed zero threat to the U.S. The fact that you think he was because the lying ass administration told you so is what's really sad.

You don't know what goes on, and try to bullshit your way through a conversation. I studied things like this for my thesis and major in college. He was connected through terrorist groups and had been for years. He did not need an ICBM that could reach the U.S. All he needed was to develop the agent and give it to any extremist group that hates the U.S. (which isn't hard to find), and he could stike at the U.S. through terrorist cells, and deny the entire thing. Do some reading and research as opposed to getting all your info from maxim. I studied weapons proliferation for almost 3 years so do not bs be thanks.

its impossible to make a sensable argument in this thread anymore. its gone way too far right and left wing. im in the middle, have different feelings about each little issue, however if i go one way im the tree hugging hippe, but if i go the other way im the brainwashed patriot. fuck this thread in its stupid ass

:yes:

and then some

I don't think, personally, that Saddam had a direct threat to us but even catching him, it's still not going to be over. I don't think his capture was the "ultimate war ender".There are still American haters out there who still wants to kill us and are probably thinking of ways to do so...

Nicey nice.

I bow to you master v8. You sure showed me.

Thank you for teaching me the error of my ways.

What would I do without you?

:rolleyes:

Keep rolling your eyes.. :rolleyes:

Bury your head back in the sand and all the ban things will go away lol

Yes, thank you again sir.

What would I do without you?

Oh right, stay sane.