Anyone watch the stock market at all?

[AzCivic]

It looks like now is a good time to buy satellite radio stock, XM or Sirius, both are at a nice low point.

[Robert]

Yes, though I would only buy if you expect it to go up. The stock market isnt so hot right now.

[AzCivic]

All I know is that there are only two satellite radio companies in the world. Both are trying their hardest to gain suscribers, its almost impossible for any other company to jump in now and be competitive. Just about every new vehicle has satellite radio as a cheap add on.
And lets face it FM sucks, its like trying to pick up tv stations back in the day with rabbit ears.

[IALuder]

i agree, its going to boom.

but the market isnt the best.

[AzCivic]

why do you guys think the market isn't so hot? Over the last couple of years its been going up at a nice steady pace.

[IALuder]

thats true, but many of the bigger companies are folding up and going under. ruinin most of the stock.

the price of the dollar also isnt worth shit anymore. a euro is now worth more.

[Mischief]

my dad use to have stock in sirius, not sure if he does anymore

[Wren57]

I used to watch the stock market heavily and trade in tech stocks (back in HS when I had time to watch it). I've since put almost all my equity in safe long-term big-cap stocks and large mutual funds.

Right now I would be extremely cautious regarding satellite radio stock. With XM and Sirius fighting for not only customers but hosts (see Howard Stern $500M) they are making it cheaper for the consumer and more expensive to produce. The only way they will turn a significant profit is if they manage to get satellite radio mainstream (as in over 80% of cars). Until they do this, I don't foresee them doing so well, and I think we are still 5 years off from this.

I'd say it is a high-risk, high-return stock. Could go belly-up due to costs and slacking customer base, could go up considerably. All up to their marketing department and sales force. Don't put more than 15% of your money in these stocks.

[JDMFantasy2k]

I used to watch the stock market heavily and trade in tech stocks (back in HS when I had time to watch it). I've since put almost all my equity in safe long-term big-cap stocks and large mutual funds.

Right now I would be extremely cautious regarding satellite radio stock. With XM and Sirius fighting for not only customers but hosts (see Howard Stern $500M) they are making it cheaper for the consumer and more expensive to produce. The only way they will turn a significant profit is if they manage to get satellite radio mainstream (as in over 80% of cars). Until they do this, I don't foresee them doing so well, and I think we are still 5 years off from this.

I'd say it is a high-risk, high-return stock. Could go belly-up due to costs and slacking customer base, could go up considerably. All up to their marketing department and sales force. Don't put more than 15% of your money in these stocks.

I agree, they're taking a huge gamble on howard and are paying him way too much. Kind of funny that the president of our country makes like $400,000 per year, and howard stern makes like $100 million for talking on the radio. But in any case their stock shot up when he came over and now it's going down. So yeah maybe they didn't make the best decision. Although it was funny listening to him bash how XM is signing Oprah to her own channel. He was ripping her apart.

[AzCivic]

I think its about as high risk as say cable tv was in like the 80's. who in their right mind would pay for tv when you can get it for free!!!!!!! pretty much everyone. But yeah its not like investing in GE, but then there isn't much chance for a high return either.

The Howard stern deal was pretty rediculous. Though when you think about it, could sirius afford NOT to have Stern? They did see the biggest increase in subscribers when he switched over then in any previous quarter so it did work. All those people would've went to XM which would have enlarged the gap between the two tremondously.

[Gone]

The market hasn't been all that great lately, many companies dropped, but you might have luck with it seeing as how most new automobiles being designed are built with them.

[Robert]

The reason they paid howard so much is because of his listern base. All sirus needs to turn a profit is for 70-80% of howards listerns, who are more devoted to him they opera's fan base, and they will turn a profit.

I think there is so much else competing for peoples attention, MP3, movies and the internet that radio isnt what peopl are hungry for. I also personally think the billing of 12/month sucks. So I have to buy this radio gadget and then pay monthly to find out if i like it. Until that changes I'm not interested.

What they should do is offer a free for 1 year with a automotive company. Did you know that 40-50% of the cars sold this year will offer a factory installed option for an Ipod? Why would you get radio if you can listen to Ipods for a one time fee?

[AzCivic]

music isn't the only reason people listen to radio, and who wants to buy every single song they listen too? people are going to continue to have both songs they buy and the radio they can just listen too for talk shows, news, new music, different music they've never heard, etc.

the two of them already have about 10million listeners so there must be quite a few who like radio.

[GT40FIED]

Howard Stern...meh. Satellite radio...meh. I can do without either one. I just don't see the point in radio period. Sure, satellite is uncernsored and commercial-free...but so are my CDs.

I'm with Robert. I don't want to have to go out and buy the tuner and THEN fork over more money for the subscription just to find out whether I like it or not. That's like paying for a year's subscription to an Asian film channel because I might like a movie they show every now and then.

I guess 10 million is a lot...even though it's less than 3% of America's population. I do think satellite will win out over commercial radio eventually, but that's a long ways away and they'll have to fix some issues they've got before people really get interested.

While I'm thinking about it, what's up with fucking iPods? First of all, they're overpriced and they have tons of technical bugs (not the least of which is their non-replacable battery problems and numerous computer interface problems) and there happen to be better, cheaper, easier to use MP3 players out there. Besides, do you really need 20 gigs of storage so you can listen to music on your way to class? Or even 5 gigs? Hell...512MB would work fine for me...and I like some diverse shit. Even my digital camera has an MP3 function so, with a 512MB card in it *BOOM*, I beat your shitty iPod. I really think Apple just likes to introduce overpriced and shitty products so people can feel all upper-crust when they buy them. Fuck the iPod.

[AzCivic]

you guys can't be serious saying that you if you have to buy something and pay a monthly fee then you're not gonna use it. cause that nixes cable/sat tv, the internet, cell phones, and more stuff you can live with out but will you? most won't.

10mill might only be 3% of the US pop, but xm has only been broadcasting since '01 and sirius started a year later i believe.

and if you want an mp3 player why not get one that'll play sat radio too?

[Mischief]

While I'm thinking about it, what's up with fucking iPods? First of all, they're overpriced and they have tons of technical bugs (not the least of which is their non-replacable battery problems and numerous computer interface problems) and there happen to be better, cheaper, easier to use MP3 players out there. Besides, do you really need 20 gigs of storage so you can listen to music on your way to class? Or even 5 gigs? Hell...512MB would work fine for me...and I like some diverse shit. Even my digital camera has an MP3 function so, with a 512MB card in it *BOOM*, I beat your shitty iPod. I really think Apple just likes to introduce overpriced and shitty products so people can feel all upper-crust when they buy them. Fuck the iPod. just because you only want to have a couple songs with you while I prefer to carry my entire play list with me the iPod sucks? makes sense. almost..

[Gone]

I have a 60 gig ipod and I have about 54 gs filled up on it with music and movies that I like to go to friends hook it up to their computer and watch movies. Also I have like 8 games/emulators on it too. hmmm Zelda.... I've never had a problem with my past two ipods. Plus my ipod has adapter to display through my headunit in my car which is a great function, while charging the damned thing. One problem though the headunit takes forever to get through all my bands. I'm thinking about doing a computer instead. Much easier. Go Ipods! If They Sell, They Ought To!

[AzCivic]

Comcast cable. Will sat radio follow the same trend? Who knows, I'd be willing to bet that it does.
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/my/c/cmcsa

Dish network, sat tv:
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/my/d/dish

[GT40FIED]

just because you only want to have a couple songs with you while I prefer to carry my entire play list with me the iPod sucks? makes sense. almost..

I guess my question would be do you really NEED your whole playlist at all times? I mean..I can fit a few hundred songs onto a 512MB flash card. No way I'm going through that on a plane or on my way to class. The video ones would probably be more fun (and a lot more expensive) but they've still gotta have the battery problems. Over the holidays at work we sold iPods and Creative MP3 players (can't remember the names) and we sold 5 Creatives for every 1 iPod. Maybe people are starting to wise up.

Anyway...back OT. Rob...I'd say that XM or Sirius *might* duplicate what happened with cable, but it'll take a lot longer. Think about it...there's really only a handful of genres of TV and movies to show on cable. Chances are that at any given time, with only a few more channels on TV, people could find something they liked on. Music and radio has tons of genres and even more sub-genres. And there's no garauntee that you'll even like a song/talk show topic/whatever even if you happen to like that genre. I remember someone telling me that there's a speed metal channel on satellite radio...there can't be more than 50 people tuned into that at any given time.

[Wren57]

Is it really worth it to the AVERAGE American consumer to have sat. radio in their cars for their commute to and from work. I don't think the average consumer will find it to be worth it; hell, the average consumer spent more last year than saved, I don't think they have any extra cash sitting around to pay $.50 a day to have a larger selection of music to listen to in their car instead of merely burning a CD... I can see this being worth it to the traveling salesman or someone who is driving a lot (truck drivers, etc), but not to the average 15 minute commuter.

[AzCivic]

I guess we'll have to see what the avg consumer says he wants in a couple of years. Of course by then it'll be too late to jump in and see any real gains. I'm gonna get back to my 100 or so tv channels all of which play commercials, that I pay around 30-40$ a month for.

[Mischief]

I guess my question would be do you really NEED your whole playlist at all times? I mean..I can fit a few hundred songs onto a 512MB flash card. No way I'm going through that on a plane or on my way to class. The video ones would probably be more fun (and a lot more expensive) but they've still gotta have the battery problems.

Do I absolutely NEED it? no.. but is it convenient having all my songs on it already instead of having to constantly plug it in and re-do my playlist everytime I want a change of music on there? yes.. and to me it's worth the cost.. and I don't know what battery problems you're talking about, I know the first gen ipods had problems but I've never heard of problems after that, I know I never had any and no one I know that has an iPod has any problems with them.

[Robert]

I guess we'll have to see what the avg consumer says he wants in a couple of years. Of course by then it'll be too late to jump in and see any real gains. I'm gonna get back to my 100 or so tv channels all of which play commercials, that I pay around 30-40$ a month for.

100 channels of tv $40 =40 cents/channel/month
100 radio channels XM radio $12 = 12cents/channel/month

I think you get alot better value on your tv then you do with your rado.

Since all cable companies do is distribute the channels they are not responsible for the making and advertising off all the programs. So your not paying the final cost of your tv shows.

XM and Siris are responsible for the entire process. This makes them very volnerable. Actually I suspect they are illegal companie since they have entire vertical integration. See 1946 paramont decree.

However the major difference is you can check out content from most cable providers with little out of pocket costs to yourself. You need not invest in hardware and can select major channels to subscribe to.

I know your liking the idea, and maybe it will take off. With current stock market conditions I would put money elsewhere.

[AzCivic]

not invest in hardware? everymonth I'm (and every other cable user) paying a rental fee to rent the box, 10-20bucks for me on top of the programming price. In 10years thats 1000-2000dollars! Makes paying $100 or so for a in car tuner seem pretty cheap.

and they do have some form of advertising so they're are getting money from that. its just not nearly as rediculous as commercials on tv/ regular radio. and because someone offers a service that doesn't pound advertising at you its illegal? lol.

what does current stock market conditions have to do with a company becoming successful? I don't think new suscribers ask to take a look at the stock market trend before they sign up.

eh, I could be wrong but since I don't have all my money tied up in it I'm not gonna worry.

[Mischief]

last I checked you need to buy this thing called a TV in order to watch it.. same thing as buying a tuner to get in your car for the radio just about..

[Wren57]

Honestly AZ, it sounds like you came here seeking advice about a sector after you bought stock in it (or had already made up your mind to buy it). With this many people doubting it and you being the only person (an investor in it) thinking it will go up, you are likely setting yourself up to lose a lot of money. Too much faith and/or connection/love for a stock is extremely dangerous.

[Wren57]

(Most) People watch TV for HOURS a day, so it is worth it to them. How many people actually listen to the radio for more than one hour a day to actually give a shit about what they are listening to enough to pay $13 a month for slightly better radio. I personally have heard both XM and Sirius and have not found a station I've liked significantly more than anything on FM.

[Robert]

not invest in hardware? everymonth I'm (and every other cable user) paying a rental fee to rent the box, 10-20bucks for me on top of the programming price. In 10years thats 1000-2000dollars! Makes paying $100 or so for a in car tuner seem pretty cheap.

and they do have some form of advertising so they're are getting money from that. its just not nearly as rediculous as commercials on tv/ regular radio. and because someone offers a service that doesn't pound advertising at you its illegal? lol.

what does current stock market conditions have to do with a company becoming successful? I don't think new suscribers ask to take a look at the stock market trend before they sign up.

eh, I could be wrong but since I don't have all my money tied up in it I'm not gonna worry.

last I checked you need to buy this thing called a TV in order to watch it.. same thing as buying a tuner to get in your car for the radio just about..


Let me answer both of these. The single act of purchasing a TV is very different from an XM/Siris radio device. Simply put a TV has mulitple uses, DVD, computer, cable and free tv viewing. So the simple act of purchasing a TV does not require the contiuned payment to a company to use that product.

However both XM/Siris require that you continue to pay in order to listen to radio services. They are good for nothing else.

All other fees you pay are 'upgrades' on your current TV which on its own will greater play back.

Why I wouldnt buy into the stock of either of these companies is because I fundimentally believe alot of money will be spent in changing consumers behaviours. Its a well known marketing fact that its easy to do a product extention then to cause a consumer to change how they consume something.

Think about how long it took to push the microwave? Everyone has one now, but who's getting ritch off them?

I agree with Wren on this one. I'm glad you like your product. I wont be buying one.

[nonovurbizniz]

don't just think of it on a consumer level...

Dish network, cablevision, comcast etc etc... most likely ALL are going to package one of the two major sat. radio with their subscription...

I know that Cablevision already has XM.

Sat. Radio most likely BOTH companies will be in business and making big profits for a long time to come IMO... sure sirius is spending big bucks which DEFINATELY could backfire... but frankly I don't see them going anywhere with this much money invested on not only their part but all the hardware manufactuers building products for them...

And don't get me wrong... I wouldn't pay for radio in a million years... I HATE the radio... the chances of them having more than 1-2 stations that I like listening to is 1 in a million... and on top of that I'm not in the car enough to even begin to justify it...

AND on top of ALL THAT 3 weeks into stern being on satalite they already started talking about self-censoring... AND they have commercials on some stations... F all that.

But I'm betting that AZ is right and all of us are going to look like dicks for not agreeing in 10 years...

Either way if the stock is cheap and your gunna buy stock.. then IMO you should spend what you can afford to lose... the market is like the track... only with MUCH shittier odds.

It's crazy to me the whole idea... apple for example shows like 500pct profit increase and their stock drops because analysts were expecting 600pct... WTF.

They trade snowfall futures now... lol.

[nonovurbizniz]

Oh and HEY... isn't the stock market doing well???

I mean I don't follow it but didn't it just break 10k for the first time since the 90's???

[Robert]

Oh and HEY... isn't the stock market doing well???

I mean I don't follow it but didn't it just break 10k for the first time since the 90's???

Well what part of the exchange has hit 10k?

The market has taken a beating since the dotcom buble, enron and the likes. Its not the same market it was before. Though it is recovering.

[Wren57]

Dow hit over 11,000. Market is very bullish right now, mainly driven by energy stocks. Retailers, cyclical stocks and raw materials stocks aren't doing very well but construction and expansion-related stocks are booming. Even semiconductors have made a comeback.

As for not just looking at a stock on the consumer level, thats the stupidest advice I've ever heard. Who do you think pays for the product? Even if another company pays for it to put it in a bundle, they pass that cost onto the consumer and the acquiring company will do LOTS of research before paying for bundle rights... It simply, as you said nonov, isn't worth it.

[mylittlecivic]

:loco: my dad's been running a radio station since i was a baby, he's pretty upset about the whole satelite radio thing taking over local radio, but local radio has been pretty dead for awhile. It just sucks because he's blind and thats what he's good at, hopefully he can keep his running. It might be easier since its in a small town and what.

[nonovurbizniz]

Wren:

Consumers aren't going to reject their previously existing sat/cable plan becuase the company bought into the wrong sat. radio network... IE... if EVERY cable/sat provider chooses XM... Sirius will most likely fail... and vise versus...

People take whats GIVEN to them... if you looking at new cars and they GIVE you free sat. radio... you're prob not going to reject the car because it's XM instead of Sirius or vice versus...

Same goes for cable/sat tv subscribers... a dish network subscriber isn't going to change his service becuase dish network got XM instead of Sirius... BUT it's going to mean MUCH more "subscribers" to which ever sat. radio company the TV company chooses.

Also I don't think you realize that most of the Sat. TV/digital cable companies are ALREADY providing their own radio programming with their TV Service (it's only availabe through the TV)... and I'm SURE that some of them are looking to severe that leg of the company and just outsource it to one of the 2 majore sat radio companies which have a MUCH higher budget and dedicated operations....

Doesn't sound so dumb to me... millions of subscribers all with basically no say in which one their cable/sat provider chooses.

[AzCivic]

Honestly AZ, it sounds like you came here seeking advice about a sector after you bought stock in it (or had already made up your mind to buy it). With this many people doubting it and you being the only person (an investor in it) thinking it will go up, you are likely setting yourself up to lose a lot of money. Too much faith and/or connection/love for a stock is extremely dangerous.


(Most) People watch TV for HOURS a day, so it is worth it to them. How many people actually listen to the radio for more than one hour a day to actually give a shit about what they are listening to enough to pay $13 a month for slightly better radio. I personally have heard both XM and Sirius and have not found a station I've liked significantly more than anything on FM.

I wasn't really seeking advice, I was just starting a discussion on the topic. I make up my own mind about where I spend my money not listen to a couple of guys on the internet, lol.

I'd be willing to bet there are tens of millions of people in this country who have a commute that equals a few hours everyday, how often have you changed radio stations and found absolutely nothing on? It happens to me all the time, its either the same song thats been played 100times in the last week or commercials. If you can't find something better than that on sat radio, well you must have low expectations and reg radio is just fine for you.
How many actually want to pay 13$/month? 10million so far, in the 4years or so its been out. Its only a matter of time before they break out into the world market(well they're already starting) and the 10's of millions of potential suscribers swells to easily 100's of millions.

but if risk isn't your thing thats fine.

[AzCivic]

Let me answer both of these. The single act of purchasing a TV is very different from an XM/Siris radio device. Simply put a TV has mulitple uses, DVD, computer, cable and free tv viewing. So the simple act of purchasing a TV does not require the contiuned payment to a company to use that product.

However both XM/Siris require that you continue to pay in order to listen to radio services. They are good for nothing else.

All other fees you pay are 'upgrades' on your current TV which on its own will greater play back.

Why I wouldnt buy into the stock of either of these companies is because I fundimentally believe alot of money will be spent in changing consumers behaviours. Its a well known marketing fact that its easy to do a product extention then to cause a consumer to change how they consume something.

Think about how long it took to push the microwave? Everyone has one now, but who's getting ritch off them?

I agree with Wren on this one. I'm glad you like your product. I wont be buying one.

I don't think you really know what you're talking about. You can buy a car radio that can play sat radio and not get a subscription for the service and just use it to play local radio, mp3's, dvd or whatever else you can get a car stereo to do.

changing consumer behaviors? how is getting sat radio for a car thats more than likely equiped w/ a sat ready radio changing anything? did you complain when car companies started having only CD players instead of tape players? probably not cause CD is better and people want the best if they can afford it.

how many companies make microwaves? how many sat radio companies are there? hmm I don't see how comparing the two makes any sense whatsoever. btw perhaps no one got rich off the sale of microwaves alone, but I'm sure if an appliance company said "screw that we don't need to sell those" the would have lost ALOT of money.

Well what part of the exchange has hit 10k?
The market has taken a beating since the dotcom buble, enron and the likes. Its not the same market it was before. Though it is recovering.

its not the same as before? why because its returned to everyone not jumping on the latest website company? that lasted like what 3 years?

Yes, though I would only buy if you expect it to go up. The stock market isnt so hot right now.
this statement right here, the first one you made, kind of told me to just tune out everything you have to say.

why no, I'd only buy it if I expected it to drop..isn't that how making money on the stock market works?

[AzCivic]

Wren:

Consumers aren't going to reject their previously existing sat/cable plan becuase the company bought into the wrong sat. radio network... IE... if EVERY cable/sat provider chooses XM... Sirius will most likely fail... and vise versus...

People take whats GIVEN to them... if you looking at new cars and they GIVE you free sat. radio... you're prob not going to reject the car because it's XM instead of Sirius or vice versus...

Same goes for cable/sat tv subscribers... a dish network subscriber isn't going to change his service becuase dish network got XM instead of Sirius... BUT it's going to mean MUCH more "subscribers" to which ever sat. radio company the TV company chooses.

Also I don't think you realize that most of the Sat. TV/digital cable companies are ALREADY providing their own radio programming with their TV Service (it's only availabe through the TV)... and I'm SURE that some of them are looking to severe that leg of the company and just outsource it to one of the 2 majore sat radio companies which have a MUCH higher budget and dedicated operations....

Doesn't sound so dumb to me... millions of subscribers all with basically no say in which one their cable/sat provider chooses.

good points.
If you want an option package on a vw jetta now(i use this as an example cause i was looking at them the other day) guess what you're getting a stereo that can play sat radio.

yup, my cable company has their own music only channels, it'd be pretty neat if they switched it over to sat radio.

[Robert]

Azcivic -

<i>I don't think you really know what you're talking about. You can buy a car radio that can play sat radio and not get a subscription for the service and just use it to play local radio, mp3's, dvd or whatever else you can get a car stereo to do.</i>

Advertising up here for Siris has invovled the push for handheld units that play sat radio and competing directly with Ipods & the like.This is what I am refering to, I realize there are hybrid units, just like there are tvs w/ dvd players built in. However When strictly compairing the product sat radio which requires an on going fee there is a difference.

Sat radio most compares to cable, internet and cellphone uses. All of which had low rates of adoption. Hence my stock comment. Further more you can get free dialup internet access if you're willing to watch ads on your computer. Whats a 56k modem these days? $14? And we get our DSL modem for free. Is there a sampler package with sat radio?

<I>changing consumer behaviors? how is getting sat radio for a car thats more than likely equiped w/ a sat ready radio changing anything? did you complain when car companies started having only CD players instead of tape players? probably not cause CD is better and people want the best if they can afford it.</I>

I gather you're not in marketing. The change in consumer behaviour is radio = free & sat radio = fee. Notice the difference? Thats the change in behaviour.

If car comanies starting selling cars that only played sat. radio and not am/fm I think you would see a difference. Since CD's are 20 years old, and highly adopted your not comparing apples to apples. Sat. radio is new.

<i> Stock market comments</I>
No its not the same as before, there is less faith in the market, investors are concerned with the high US debt and the recent auto industry shake ups.

Marginalizing my comments on the stock market because you dont understand them only serves to hurt you if you choose to invest.

My issue with sat radio is that I dont think people are willing to pay for it. The concept is great, I like commerical free at high quaility play back, I just dont think people are going to get excited over sat radio.

It actually reminds me of GM's onstar program. For the first few years they tried to sell it as an upgrade when purchasing cars, now it comes free for the first year. Wonder why? Cause the product doesn't get excepted otherwise and people dont feel the need to buy it until they use it.

If sat. radio is to improve its adoption rate which at 10million is extreemly low, they wil have to form a partnership

[AzCivic]

Like I said I tuned you out, I find your arguments pretty weak. I make a comparison and its apples to oranges, yet you compare sat radio with microwaves and Onstar, mm ok.

I don't understand "I'd only buy if you think it'll go up"? such deep insight, i'm gonna go spend a few hours researching what exactly that means. lol.

10mill subscribers in about 4-5 years, xm alone is expecting 9mill by the end of '06 and sirius is expecting 6mill. 15mill together, up 5 million in one year if it goes as they expect, which it probably will. yup thats extremely low. if it keeps up at that rate for a couple more years, thats what? around 25-30mill subscribers if the rate of increase stays about constant, which I think is pretty conservative.

[nonovurbizniz]

Another thing that people don't seem to recognize here is...

If you don't live in a MAJOR Radio market chacnes are you have TERRIBLE reception and even if you're in a majore markey you get TERRIBLE programming/choice...

And frankly I'd say in the next 2-3 years I might seriously consider getting it... and chances are if I were to buy a new car that came with it I'd keep it.

(I know like 15-20 people who said VIAMENTLY that they would not keep the XM or Sirius past the initial free period 13-14 of them ended up keeping it)

ALSO another point that everyone here seems to ignore is there are VAST VAST VAST area's of this country with little to NO reception... or they're such small markets there are no big radio stations (of course they generally have MUCH better radio... just no power to broadcast it).

Like AZ said... "free" radio is free because

A. It's LOADED with commercials
B. It panders to the masses so it plays drivle and not just that the SAME drivel...

I live in the NY radio market and have previously lived in the Boston Radio market...

ALL radio markets are the same (not just that but they're ALL owned by like 3 different media companies)... A couple EZ listening stations, a couple rap stations, a couple modern rock stations, a couple classic rock stations and some public radio...

Either way NONE of the stations have more than like 100 songs (AT MOST) in their current playlists...

Radio sucks bad... If I visited my parents more often or had a longer commute there would have been no question for me... Although I'm still pretty convinced that the chances of me finding more than one or two stations I like even on sat. radio is slim to none.

[AzCivic]

yeah really, I have to drive a few times a year to the inlaws place which requires trekking through west texas, you're lucky to get one old school country station.

I love going through the few local stations i listen to, only to hear the same song on two of them and the rest on commercials, but hey its free.

xm(and maybe sirius) offer a 3day free trial on their website for their online listening thing so you can check it out for free.

[ChrisCantSkate]

you cant sell something to someone who dosnt want it, mainly kids and young adults arnt gonna want satalite radio because of the monthly fee and with the out of control mp3 pirating they can get what they want, however with car companys incl;uding the receiver in the car, shelling that extra $12 a month, expectially for the types of cars some of them are coming in are 100% worth it. there are 3 music radio stations here locally i listen to, and one talk radio. thats 4 channels i get for free most the time when the signal dosnt suck, and i dont commute. if i had to drive a hr every day and listen to those same 3 crappy channels i'd buy one for sure. my uncle has one in his infinity and its amazing. i could always find something on i wanted to hear, they had good comedy stations of just stand up comedians, then for those nfl/nba fans who get blacked out or are out of the market for a certain game the satalite radio is a godsend.

if you dont want one, your not gonna see any point in buying one. however if you do, then its an amazing piece of equipment that will revolutionize that industry. i dont know how i would go about buying the stock now as i havnt researched it in quite some time, but i convinced my mom back in 01 or 02 to buy some and she made a nice penny off it.

for the market, right now in my life im just buying things i can sit on for a few years. i dont have the time to check it daily and make trades. ive been making 12-14% a year for the past 3 years on all my stocks. i know how much higher it could be day trading... shit one of my freinds turned $2000 into $26,000 in 5 months.. lucky? very... but it can be done. me on the other hand i make a nice $1000 more in my portfolio every year just letting it sit there. if i was going to invest in anything now i'd be looking into oil for a semi-short term.. maybe 6 months to a year or when it spikes the most/fastest, then decide from that. probobly a local(inside usa) company since with the recent iran issues going on, and the past trends from the desert storm, operation freedom fighter incorperated(W's war), and the hurricanes gas prices are just on the edge from spiralling out of control again and probobly more. look at every other country and their prices... much more than ours. how long can we keep it this low and how long will the gov subsidise it for us? as soon as one piece falls your stock *should* make enough to put a smile on your face.