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View Full Version : A secular thought on god


GT40FIED
06-14-2005, 05:43 AM
As per usual, this is not meant to be a debate. It is merely a thought I've been contemplating (especially whilst intoxicated) that I can't come to terms with. Insight is welcome, but if this turns into another debate you have my word I'll lock and/or delete this thread faster than a hooker leaves Salt Lake.

So after conversations with some extended family recently, I've come to a conclusion...mankind got it all wrong about "God". Said extended family is fairly religious, especially since my father was a priest before he left and got married. They can't come to terms with the fact that I don't believe in their version of "god". They offer arguments to this and that which ultimately solidify my disbelief. What's my beef? Read on.

I think my main problem is the ideology that worship automatically equals love. I mean...if you were in a relationship and your girlfriend/wife (or, for the ladies, your boyfriend/husband) decided that to be their significant other you would have to prove your love by worshipping them, you'd probably kick them to the curb like it was trash day. So why do people accept this kind of blind faith when it comes to god(s)? Such topics are the subject of countless guests on Maury Povich (sp?), Montell, and Ricki Lake shows (i.e. "My husband makes me worship him because I'm a dumb cunt who can't see that he's full of shit" or something to that effect). Questions of faith are not talk show fodder...but I contend that unquestioned worship can easily be viewed as such. When does it not become ok for me to say "hey...god...you're pretty cool...let's hang out" rather than say "oh my lord, I worship you and forsake all others"? Bullshit. I think that if your god is so accepting then he (or she) would accept your gratitude and leave it at that. Monotheistic worship is pretty universal amongst religions (with the exception of buddhism and hinduism)...but why? Why would worshipping one and only one god make you special in said god's eyes? If you could reach heaven, and the idea that heaven is a paradise is still intact, would you have to continue to worship a deity? Most people worship out of attrition, not pleasure. Kierkegaard used to find religion's main problem was that it too often proclaimed to know the mind of god. But if through worship you can't possibly know the mind of god (or if you think you do to fulfill your own self serving needs), what's the fucking point?

Wren57
06-14-2005, 08:39 AM
When does it not become ok for me to say "hey...god...you're pretty cool...let's hang out"

Love it! :yes: I'm the same way and actually agree completely with you (holy shit). I look at God as being my best friend, the best person/being I know. I think thats the only way to TRULY have a relationship with God; worshipping shows obedience, friendship (or whatever you want to call it) shows love. :)

CD5Passion
06-14-2005, 10:38 AM
GASP...steve....AND WREN...agree on something?!?!??!??!

....:takes cover: someone tell me after the meteor wipes out the US so I can contiue with my life










lol

AzCivic
06-14-2005, 11:38 AM
well a girlfriend or wife at most brings your children into this world and is a companion, God on the other hand(if you believe in him) brought the universe into existence including you and your girlfriend and your relatives etc. So why would you treat them the same?

CD5Passion
06-14-2005, 11:59 AM
equality?

GT40FIED
06-14-2005, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by AzCivic
well a girlfriend or wife at most brings your children into this world and is a companion, God on the other hand(if you believe in him) brought the universe into existence including you and your girlfriend and your relatives etc. So why would you treat them the same?

I suppose that's one way to look at it. But it's really all just about love. If I love a god and I love my girlfriend, why would I worship one and not the other? If I created a church that's focal point was my girlfriend, people would start to talk. Besides, by that logic love becomes more about what someone can/has given you and that's not what I think of when I think about love. Plus I'm not sure you can weigh one as more important than the other. I mean...the universe is only what you perceive it to be...it's different for everyone. In that line of thinking the universe to you is only about your life. That said, many parents would give their lives for their children's without a second thought. So in that respect the two become equal...so the woman who gives you your children can be just as important as any god.

AzCivic
06-14-2005, 05:08 PM
You can say that the universe is really only about me since thats my viewpoint but in reality thats not true. If there was no God then there'd be nothing, if there was no you and I, very few would care and the impact would be insignificant. Sorry I just don't see how you can bring the importance of a person up to that of God or bring the importance of God down to that of a companion or family member.

GT40FIED
06-14-2005, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by AzCivic
You can say that the universe is really only about me since thats my viewpoint but in reality thats not true. If there was no God then there'd be nothing, if there was no you and I, very few would care and the impact would be insignificant. Sorry I just don't see how you can bring the importance of a person up to that of God or bring the importance of God down to that of a companion or family member.

I guess it depends how you look at it. I mean we're all already here. We have been for thousands of years. So, if I can play devil's advocate here for a second and assume that a god put us all here, then one could infer that in that respect said god's job is already done. But now a woman (with your help, of course...or perhaps the help of the mailman) can give you a child which is also a creation of life just as this god did in the beginning of it all. I don't mean to make one more important than the other, it's just circular logic to me.

That all being said, the worship of a spouse/lover was really just an allegory. I wasn't really suggesting you do that...more pointing out how absurd people would find it and perhaps even how absurd the worship of a god could be considered in extreme form. My real point is that worship implies servitude more than it does love. I would want to be near someone I loved...if I have to worship them then it becomes more of a vapid, forceful relationship that's simply a means to an end with no emotional ties along the way.

CD5Passion
06-14-2005, 09:07 PM
worship seems to have more bearing on someone of a dictator position..at least thats just how i feel
i could be wrong and the chances are very high of that but didn't god say not to worship it (it being god since i don't beleive it is neither male nor female)
maybe that was just for a certain time period but i remember something about that in humanities in one of my college classes