Fahrenheit 9/11

[No.1_Stunna]

This is one of those movies you have to see...Maybe it will change the mind of all you ignorant people that were going to poke a little hole next to Bushes name on the ballots in november. It seriously opens up your eyes to so many things such as how Bush (senior and junior) have been doing buisness with the Bin Ladens for years. I dont even really want to go into it cause then I'll ruin it for the rest of you...But its definately a must see.

[SolPol]

I knew a lot of the stuff that he expounds on already. But I learned a lot of shit too.

Go see it!!!

[biker's back]

the question is... who do yu believe?

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by No.1_Stunna
This is one of those movies you have to see...Maybe it will change the mind of all you ignorant people that were going to poke a little hole next to Bushes name on the ballots in november. It seriously opens up your eyes to so many things such as how Bush (senior and junior) have been doing buisness with the Bin Ladens for years. I dont even really want to go into it cause then I'll ruin it for the rest of you...But its definately a must see.

The UNITED STATES has been doing business with them over the past X number of years. Clinton could have EASILY prevented 911 when the first attack of the towers occured.. but he was to busy getting blown to care. BTW that attack was meant to topple the building and kill 10s of thousands. I won't see it because it's a waste of $7. I rather spend $7 on getting kicked in the dick.

Word of advice son... do research on something instead of living in movie world and believing ONE piece of info.

As for the ignorant people voting for bush.. I rather be one of those people, than one of the standard fucktards that want to vote democratic but can't figure out the fucking ballot.

[V8killimports]

And something else to consider... we sold lots of arms to the Japanese under democrats I believe.. to serve our own interests.. years later they attacked us and ended up causing the deaths of countless...

Believe it or not.. someone who is your ally today may not be your ally tomorrow...

Look at China and N. Korea. China used to supply everything to N. Korea during the Korean war. Chinese pilots even used to fly against the U.S. Now N. Korea is like that bad case of genital herpes that will never go away.

On a side note.. 99.99% of the equipment AQ uses is russian and/or foreign.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by V8killimports
The UNITED STATES has been doing business with them over the past X number of years. Clinton could have EASILY prevented 911 when the first attack of the towers occured.. but he was to busy getting blown to care. BTW that attack was meant to topple the building and kill 10s of thousands. I won't see it because it's a waste of $7. I rather spend $7 on getting kicked in the dick.

Word of advice son... do research on something instead of living in movie world and believing ONE piece of info.

As for the ignorant people voting for bush.. I rather be one of those people, than one of the standard fucktards that want to vote democratic but can't figure out the fucking ballot.

Mike...ya know I think you're a great guy...but that was poorly done. You just did the stereotypical republican thing there. You kind of danced around most facts opposing his viewpoint and went straight for hot buttons. Clinton's hummer, ballot troubles...does it have anything to do with this movie? No. Is it relevent at all? Not really. I won't be voting for Bush (I swear that guy gets a hard on every time he says the words "war on terror")...but that doesn't mean I'm voting for Kerry. Still...just because you don't like Moore's reputation or style doesn't make him wrong. "Bowling For Columbine" was a swift kick in the sack when it went exploring for the cause of our culture of violence. "Roger And Me" was a great piece on how fucked up the automotive industry is. I expect no less from this movie.

And Rob...who do I believe? That's easy. Moore. He may have fudged a few stats here and there in some of his past movies, but he hasn't lied to me for better part of the last 4 years. Or if it's the government in general we're talking about, they've been lying to me since who knows when...probably always.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Believe it or not.. someone who is your ally today may not be your ally tomorrow...

Look at China and N. Korea. China used to supply everything to N. Korea during the Korean war. Chinese pilots even used to fly against the U.S. Now N. Korea is like that bad case of genital herpes that will never go away.

On a side note.. 99.99% of the equipment AQ uses is russian and/or foreign.

I think it's a safe bet that at the rate we're pissing people off, no one will be our allies. And China's never been a big fan of ours...mostly cultural stuff. We're all just "round eyed devils". As for where AQ gets their weapons...where else would they get them? Something tells me Afghanistan and that region in general isn't known for it's weapons making capabilities and facilities. So you've gotta order all of you Kalashnikovs from Russia...or China who ripped of the design and never paid Russia a dime.

[IALuder]

i seen it and it opened my eyes just a little bit more then used to be. as for who i will vote for is none of god damn buisness. but i wont vote this election.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
I think it's a safe bet that at the rate we're pissing people off, no one will be our allies. And China's never been a big fan of ours...mostly cultural stuff. We're all just "round eyed devils". As for where AQ gets their weapons...where else would they get them? Something tells me Afghanistan and that region in general isn't known for it's weapons making capabilities and facilities. So you've gotta order all of you Kalashnikovs from Russia...or China who ripped of the design and never paid Russia a dime.

Exactly my point.. he made it sounds like they were using our own weapons against us.. we supplied weps to one faction in afghanistan while the former USSR supplied weps to another faction. Islam faction vs the commie faction... not like we supplied weps to be used in 911. Again someone who saw some headline somewhere and didn't really know wtf he was talking about.

[No.1_Stunna]

I never said anything about the weapons situation...I dont know what the f*ck your talking about when you said " he made it sounds like they were using our own weapons against us.. " cause i'm the only other one thats said anything close to the topic and if you were to refering to gt4ofied then since you were the only ones talking pretty much you should of said you...So I dont know who this HE is that said that but whatever...all I'm saying is its a movie worth seeing...apparently thats only for those that are open minded politically unlike yourself but whatever. And I dont live in the movie world listening to only one piece of info. I've always looked around at the dumb shit that bush has done and we studied some of it in history, I'm just saying this movie opened up my eyes to more stuff than what I had already seen. And when did I say you have to vote democratic? I just said dont vote for bush. So next time you decide to flame me just take a second, breath, get that thong wedgie out of your ass and then think if it's really worth trying to attack a 17 year old because he said a movie was good.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Exactly my point.. he made it sounds like they were using our own weapons against us.. we supplied weps to one faction in afghanistan while the former USSR supplied weps to another faction. Islam faction vs the commie faction... not like we supplied weps to be used in 911. Again someone who saw some headline somewhere and didn't really know wtf he was talking about.

Well technically no one supplied weapons for 9/11. Planes aren't exactly weapons...although they prove effective as such. And remember, Afghanistan isn't the only country we've armed. Billions in aid and weapons to Iraq to fight Iran...a few more billion to Iran to fight Iraq. Look how friendly they turned out to be. We've leveled one of them and have our crosshairs on the other. I think we should look over our reciepts again and try to remember who we've sold weapons to and try hard not to piss them off. This, of course, means we'll have to get Rumsfeld out of his office if we ever want to even appear like we're not waving our middle fingers at the world. We just need to remember to stop giving people weapons. Nobody who's not an american gets our weapons. They all end up hating us.

[mylittlecivic]

ehh:loco:

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by mylittlecivic
ehh:loco:

:confused:

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
:confused:

Tell you what.. I don't care about Bush, Kerry, or politics.. it's all crap. What I do care about is kicking ass and taking names. I would easily be willing to put in my time with Syria and Iran.. as well as some other less known north african countries..

Tired of idle threats by shitty little countries.. if we get oil because of it.. bonus! Saddam can claim victory over America all he wants in his little jail cell.

I didn't see the movie, and don't plan to.. and don't know the details at all.. but basically heard that it pins 911 on Bush. That's funny how Bush had only been president for less than 9 months, and we all know that this little plan was not whipped up in 9 months, but in fact was done planned and mostly executed during Clinton's term(s).

On another note.. these people who all of a sudden try to blame 911 on anything and everything including the fire and police department need to have the fuck kicked out of them..

Sorry for the rant.. the heat index is 149* today...

[V8killimports]

Here is a nice little link... enjoy!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

[biker's back]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Here is a nice little link... enjoy!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

that is exactly what I ment when i said 'who do you believe' everyone has a side to a story and often there are many sides.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by V8killimports
I didn't see the movie, and don't plan to.. and don't know the details at all.. but basically heard that it pins 911 on Bush. That's funny how Bush had only been president for less than 9 months, and we all know that this little plan was not whipped up in 9 months, but in fact was done planned and mostly executed during Clinton's term(s).

I think the point moreover is that Bush's clan had credible threats and failed to act on them. Sort of "asleep at the helm", if you will. This concern has also been voiced by other people in government, namely in those 9/11 hearings that may still be going on (haven't watched much news lately). Yeah...Clinton probably had some intelligence on it but the bottom line is that it didn't happen when Clinton was in office. As for the link...first of all, it's Fox News so I'll be damned if I take anything they have to say at face value...just like with Moore. Secondly...most of the "contradictions" they point out are petty. Like the vacation thing...they're saying that they don't count certain vacation times as "vacation". WTF? If you're not in your office or not doing work, you're on vacation. For me...the movie just solidifies what I've thought for a while in a big picture kind of way. But don't let anyone tell you the "facts" because someone else will always have other facts to prove them wrong and it's better to learn and decide for yourself.

[spoogenet]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Well technically no one supplied weapons for 9/11. Planes aren't exactly weapons...although they prove effective as such. And remember, Afghanistan isn't the only country we've armed. Billions in aid and weapons to Iraq to fight Iran...a few more billion to Iran to fight Iraq. Look how friendly they turned out to be. We've leveled one of them and have our crosshairs on the other. I think we should look over our reciepts again and try to remember who we've sold weapons to and try hard not to piss them off. This, of course, means we'll have to get Rumsfeld out of his office if we ever want to even appear like we're not waving our middle fingers at the world. We just need to remember to stop giving people weapons. Nobody who's not an american gets our weapons. They all end up hating us.

Don't forget that we trained bin Laden to fight the Soviets. We also trained Noriega. And also pumped money into some of the Taliban folks. Most of our top "evil enemies" in the last few decades have been funded by and/or trained by the US for some other political cause, and we're suffering a little something that the CI(sic)A calls blowback. Next stop is probably the Kurds or Iraqi security forces.

b

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by spoogenet
Don't forget that we trained bin Laden to fight the Soviets. We also trained Noriega. And also pumped money into some of the Taliban folks. Most of our top "evil enemies" in the last few decades have been funded by and/or trained by the US for some other political cause, and we're suffering a little something that the CI(sic)A calls blowback. Next stop is probably the Kurds or Iraqi security forces.

b

Omg or maybe even the jews?? Either way they are not near as dangerous as saddam was.. I'll take the trade off.. and you talk about something I already did like 5 posts ago.. please read the entire thread instead of the last post.. thanks!

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by spoogenet
Don't forget that we trained bin Laden to fight the Soviets. We also trained Noriega. And also pumped money into some of the Taliban folks. Most of our top "evil enemies" in the last few decades have been funded by and/or trained by the US for some other political cause, and we're suffering a little something that the CI(sic)A calls blowback. Next stop is probably the Kurds or Iraqi security forces.

b

and now we're friends w/ a country we dropped 2 atomic bombs on, and best of friends w/ a country that this nation fought to be free from. so whats your point? that times change?

[ChrisCantSkate]

and we hate the french who won the revolutionary war for us.

[spoogenet]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Omg or maybe even the jews?? Either way they are not near as dangerous as saddam was.. I'll take the trade off.. and you talk about something I already did like 5 posts ago.. please read the entire thread instead of the last post.. thanks!

I didn't realize there was a limit to the number of posts that can pass preventing somebody from posting something that is related to a previous post. I always enjoy learning new rules..thanks!

and now we're friends w/ a country we dropped 2 atomic bombs on, and best of friends w/ a country that this nation fought to be free from. so whats your point? that times change?

I'm just adding to the list of the government's bad track record in the past few decades of replacing one threat with another of equal or greater value. Sure we've had some successes along the way, back in WWII and previously.....I'm having a hard time thinking of any real successes since then.

Just how big a threat was Saddam? I'd like some evidence, not plaigiarized pre-Gulf War academic papers, forged intelligence documents, or other heresay.

While any kind of rebuilding of a country is a long and difficult process, I really won't be surprised if not too far in the future someone much worse than Saddam ever was or "was" will rise to power in the area as a result of Saddam's not being in power.

I dunno why everybody seems so edgy, but damn no need to just go jumpin on somebody for a simple post.

And nobody likes the French, including the French, and they don't like anybody either....so it's no surprise. ;)

b

[2000Pimpinex]

Originally posted by No.1_Stunna
This is one of those movies you have to see...Maybe it will change the mind of all you ignorant people that were going to poke a little hole next to Bushes name on the ballots in november. It seriously opens up your eyes to so many things such as how Bush (senior and junior) have been doing buisness with the Bin Ladens for years. I dont even really want to go into it cause then I'll ruin it for the rest of you...But its definately a must see.

People have to realize that the movie is one sided. Its easy to video tape someone when they don't realize your doing it. Every President can have a movie come out about them thats just like this one. M. Moore is a Bush hater and his purpose in life is to make Bush look bad. Clinton was caught doing far worse things. Noone made a movie about him with all kinds of shit in it that he wasn't aware of. The fact is, our government has had relations with people in the middle east for years and it will continue far after Bush leaves office.

[Kool-Aid]

Me and a friend went to go see this movie. I can say that I am not much into politics and all and I never really watch the news but the movie actually "enlightened" me on what Bush was really all about and what was going on between him and the Bin Ladens...when I saw that we bombed Iraq for no damn reason, which is what I got out of it, it kinda made me feel weird about being over there...I honestly felt like I was fighting for my country when Iraq really had nothing to do with anything...

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by 2000Pimpinex
Clinton was caught doing far worse things. Noone made a movie about him with all kinds of shit in it that he wasn't aware of.

Wow...I'm sorry...but did you just compare lying about getting a hummer to lying and sending a few thousand people to their ultimate deaths? Dude...all I can say is jesus, what balls. Clinton wasn't a bad president...just a bad liar. Not only is Bush a bad liar, but he's just a horrible human being. I honestly don't think that politicians understand that a good amount of people would be behind them for whatever reason if they simply told the fucking truth. God knows the "praise the lord and pass the ammunition" fucktards would've been behind the war no matter what because it's a reason to kill off them A-rabs. And I would've been cool with Clinton if he'd have just said "yeah, she blew me...what's the big deal?". Just don't even compare the two. Yeah, they've both fucked up, but be honest with yourself as to who fucked up worse.

[biker's back]

I think the part that struck me most was the rally when bush was going to make his walk to the white house. People actually threw eggs at him. Stuff like that wouldnt or shouldnt happen if he was the majority vote would it?

I think this movie brings into questions the grounds to goto to war in Iraq and the way in which he became presedent.

[GT40FIED]

Unfortunately that's the way it works here. I dunno how it works in the great white north, but with an electoral college winning the most votes doesn't mean you're in office. I mean...we gave California the most pull...a state that is by and large full of retards (not all of it, but a good part).

[SolPol]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Here is a nice little link... enjoy!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

Late getting back to this thread and Steve (as always) has made a lot of my points for me. You're a good man Steve :yes:

This article buddy. Wow! First of all, Fox News. They are slanted as far or farther right than Moore is left. I think their "Fair and Balanced" actually probably refers to balancing out Moore as opposed to actually being fair and balanced.

From the article:


Finally, Moore shows prominent members of the Taliban visiting Texas, implying that they were invited by then-Governor Bush. The Taliban delegation, however, was invited to Houston by UNOCAL (search), a California energy company.

So if it's a California company, why did they come to Texas? Couldn't be because Bush was there could it?

In "Fahrenheit 9/11" (search) Moore also claims that the White House approved plans for planes to pick up relatives of Usama Bin Laden right after the attacks. But according to terrorism czar Richard Clarke (search), he alone approved the Saudi flights.

Because the Bush administration has always been so truthful. They just gonna come out and say you caught us. Our bad.

Don't think so.

[ChrisCantSkate]

i love double standards and the way everyone uses them to strengthen their arguments... very entertaining.

[biker's back]

the problem is to figure out who is telling the truth

[V8killimports]

HAHA.. the movie is a good source while foxnews is not?? rofl.. whatever creams your twinkie. Both are bad, but makes the movie worse is that it's done by a fucking moron that even bigger fucking morons believe.

I am done arguing this. I just thank god that most of you will never have ANYTHING to do with policy making. As for no good reason to bomb iraq... come on now, let's not be totally stupid. If you don't like the military then you should probably get the hell out, and think twice before you get into something you cannot handle..

[GT40FIED]

Now now Mike...just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's wrong. Fox News is slanted one way, Moore is slanted another way. Yeah...I'll agree that some of the things Moore has put forth were just plain wrong. But that doesn't detract from the point of the film. Fox News, as a news station, has the job of reporting news...not editorial commentary on a movie that they don't like. But then you've got the top level government officials...the biggest liars of all. Why did two senior senators come out the other day and blast the pre-war CIA intelligence? Because it was wrong. And these are the people we depend on for "intelligence". So Bush, acting on that source and that source alone sends a few thousand poor and middle class Americans to their deaths while rich white folks (his bread and butter) remain out of harm's way. Give me one example of where something so important, costly, and deadly should be decided by information from one source. Never mind the numerous other sources telling him things to the contrary, it's the CIA so they MUST be right. Why not let the military do some recon? Maybe they could've put a preemptive strike on the whole thing. But then again I'm reminded of when I was much younger and I asked an adult what an oxy moron was and they told me "military intelligence". Go figure.

[spoogenet]

Originally posted by V8killimports
HAHA.. the movie is a good source while foxnews is not?? rofl.. whatever creams your twinkie. Both are bad, but makes the movie worse is that it's done by a fucking moron that even bigger fucking morons believe.

I am done arguing this. I just thank god that most of you will never have ANYTHING to do with policy making. As for no good reason to bomb iraq... come on now, let's not be totally stupid. If you don't like the military then you should probably get the hell out, and think twice before you get into something you cannot handle..

What are the good reasons to bomb Iraq? Ever since before the war I've still been waiting for solid proof of anything that makes me believe it's worth sending my countrymen to war for. I have yet to hear much credible proof, but since you're convinced maybe you can share the proof.

If you don't like the military, there's a good chance you CAN'T get out right now, at least the Army currently has a freeze on leaving, possibly more branches.

A good way to get a picture of what's going on is to listen to both sides, filter out the biased crap, and you can usually figure out a good deal of truth from it. I doubt Moore is any more of a moron than Bush.

My new favorite quote of the day. "...f*ck yourself" -- VP Dick Cheney

b