draft...

[ChrisCantSkate]

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

comments opinions?

[pdiggitydogg]

agh f*ck
just what I needed to read

[CD5Passion]

fuck that, I'm interested in school not death, welp time to move to japan

p.s. you're sure this is a reliable source?

[pdiggitydogg]

It has all official gov. reference #'s...its reliable
IMO, if the system is slated to be ready for march 2k5...and bush is still in office....its off to iraq we go.
F*** that...Im voting for the douche bag (I wasnt planning on voting before).
I'll happily pay more taxes for useless democrat programs, than go to the desert for some stupid idiotic Bush war terrorist crap.

[SolPol]

It is from Congress.org

Is that an official site? I guess maybe not since they are criticizing. No way will I ever be drafted, I know that much. I'd sooner climb a tower in Texas with my high powered rifle.

[Kool-Aid]

I don't think this is necessary...only because the Air Force is trying to discharge a whole bunch of people...why not use them instead of drafting civilians...keep what the military already has...:doh:

[CD5Passion]

^ haha...yup defently voting kerry

[Rob]

that's why I'm glad I did my time and got the fuck out....and I know I'm too old to be drafted..........

[Kool-Aid]

How old is too old to be drafted?? 35??

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by Shardsofxapril
^ haha...yup defently voting kerry

good thinking.. kerry supposedly wants more troops in iraq.

[Kool-Aid]

Either way, us troops are screwed...

[JDMFantasy2k]

new idea, everyone here on this forums pitchis in every cent they have and we charter a plane to japan. Then we can have nice JDM vehicles, and we won't have to the sandbox to fight the A-RABS

[Kool-Aid]

Sheit..two words....how much?? :)

[Wren57]

I still don't think it will happen. Correct me on my figures if I am wrong, but I believe we have 1.4million standing army and 1.7million reserves. We have less than 300,000 troops deployed. Math just doesn't add up to require a draft.

[pdiggitydogg]

Last I heard, kerry is only saying he wants troops in iraq, now, because the majority of the public thinks there should be more...because of misleading accounts in the press and bush. Originally, kerry was completely against sending more troops...and if elected, he probably would have them pulled out or just not send anymore.
Plus, I remember just reading/hearing that Iraq's about to be left on its own anyway...begin the unequal treaties (see 2 japan/us treaties sept 1951)

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by highlander
I still don't think it will happen. Correct me on my figures if I am wrong, but I believe we have 1.4million standing army and 1.7million reserves. We have less than 300,000 troops deployed. Math just doesn't add up to require a draft.
we'll never call our whole army out. we need troops here on the mainland, troops in our bases in every country, etc. it is possible, expecially if we do continue on this manifest destiny... i mean policing the world... i mean controlling terrorism.

[mylittlecivic]

I would go to prison before I would go to war

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by mylittlecivic
I would go to prison before I would go to war

And I'll be right behind you. You know...I signed up for selective service (what the fuck is that name anyway? it's clearly NOT selective) the day I turned 18 and figured that, while I'd never join the armed forces, I'd go if drafted. I suppose I've become jaded in my "old age" and if I even came close to being drafted I'd wipe my ass with my draft card and get hauled off to jail. Now if we were in a worthwhile war and not constantly trying to play up our moral high ground while underminding everything we claimed to stand for by our own actions...then I'd go. But I want no part of this strategic and moral quagmire. Besides...why would the military draft a no armed motherfucker such as myself?

[Kool-Aid]

Another thing...is if it really has to come down to drafting people, I think they should take the prior enlisted...the ones who were in the military before they got out...and I know there's a lot out there...that way you're getting people who has experience rather some fresh meat civilian who doesn't have the experience...civilian's should be the LAST resort...

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Another thing...is if it really has to come down to drafting people, I think they should take the prior enlisted...the ones who were in the military before they got out...and I know there's a lot out there...that way you're getting people who has experience rather some fresh meat civilian who doesn't have the experience...civilian's should be the LAST resort...

That's why there is boot camp. They will learn.

[Kool-Aid]

Why would you bring in new inexperienced people when you can go out and get the already experienced people??? To me, it would only be common sense to do it this way...

[Kalvin]

My thoughts on the draft.... if you were a soldier, would you rather the guy watching your back out on the battlefield be someone who joined the service on their own freewill or someone the government forced to join? Someone who likes what they are doing will probably be more focused and do a better job.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by Kalvin
My thoughts on the draft.... if you were a soldier, would you rather the guy watching your back out on the battlefield be someone who joined the service on their own freewill or someone the government forced to join? Someone who likes what they are doing will probably be more focused and do a better job.

All I can say is write a letter.. I am already in.. so I am good to go. As for experienced people.. no.. they learn.. they did fine in WWII. No reaosn to screw people who have already been there for years.. IMO everyone should serve in the military for at least a little bit.

[Rob]

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
we'll never call our whole army out. we need troops here on the mainland, troops in our bases in every country, etc. it is possible, expecially if we do continue on this manifest destiny... i mean policing the world... i mean controlling terrorism.
exactly
Originally posted by Kool-Aid
I think they should take the prior enlisted...the ones who were in the military before they got out...
ummmm...no

[Kool-Aid]

Originally posted by AccordinStyle
exactly

ummmm...no

ummmm...why not??? Just because YOU are prior enlisted???? Ha ha ha ha

[Rob]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Just because YOU are prior enlisted????
ummmmm...yeah...

[Kool-Aid]

Ha ha ha...ok...just for you...how about all other prior enlistees except you... ;)

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Ha ha ha...ok...just for you...how about all other prior enlistees except you... ;)

Why?? Those people have served their time.. spent too much time away from families.. time for some other people to pick up the slack.

[Kool-Aid]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Why?? Those people have served their time.. spent too much time away from families.. time for some other people to pick up the slack.

I guess...:rolleyes:

[mylittlecivic]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Why?? Those people have served their time.. spent too much time away from families.. time for some other people to pick up the slack.


and it was their choice, not ours

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by mylittlecivic
and it was their choice, not ours

Not really.. I rather spend my time in germany than the desert.

[Rob]

Originally posted by mylittlecivic
and it was their choice, not ours
true...but to bring them back after they, we, whatever have served our/their time is fucked up...all the the anti-war, hippie fuckers on this board are 17 and 18 year old kids that have probably never left there mom's tit....and all of the fucking tree huggers in this country have probably never even left their hometown...you want to have some pride in this country, leave it for awhile and see how the rest of the world lives...I was never "military" even though I was in the Air Force for 6 years but I got to see shit that for damn sure made me glad I was a citizen of the U.S.........

[nonovurbizniz]

While I agree that if there was a draft it should CERTAINLY not be of prior enlistees; (those interested in continuing their obligation in case of war almost ALWAYS stay in the reserves for a LONG time) half of the reason for the ENORMOUS casualty rates in both WWII and Vietnam were due to there being GREEN dudes out there who had NO place on a battlefield...

I frankly don't know what I'd do if drafted... I really don't like the idea of being a cog for bush (or really any other politician)... but I also wouldn't want someone less equipted to go in my place...

Really not sure what I'd do... it would probobly depend on the current situation over there.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by AccordinStyle
true...but to bring them back after they, we, whatever have served our/their time is fucked up...all the the anti-war, hippie fuckers on this board are 17 and 18 year old kids that have probably never left there mom's tit....and all of the fucking tree huggers in this country have probably never even left their hometown...you want to have some pride in this country, leave it for awhile and see how the rest of the world lives...I was never "military" even though I was in the Air Force for 6 years but I got to see shit that for damn sure made me glad I was a citizen of the U.S.........

Exactly.. I love the "I want it all but I don't wanna have to do shit to get it" attitude on this board.

[mylittlecivic]

I have strong beliefs as to why I would not be in a war, its not something I just decided because of so called "hippies". I dont believe in the pledge of alliegance to me that is worshiping a man made country, I dont think man is supposed to rule himself.And im sick of arguing over this.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by mylittlecivic
I have strong beliefs as to why I would not be in a war, its not something I just decided because of so called "hippies". I dont believe in the pledge of alliegance to me that is worshiping a man made country, I dont think man is supposed to rule himself.And im sick of arguing over this.

omg lol.. I am confused by this whole post.. who should rule us then? Certainly not god..

[Rob]

and on that note....I'm done with this thread......:nono:

[biker's back]

hey some of you got it all wrong.

There is a price to pay to live in the country you do. Not everything is as easy as it looks, and if you arent willing to live with those prices you're in the wrong country.

You dont have to like it, you just have to accept it. If Canada pulled the draft again it would take an all out decleration of war to enable the 'war act' which would allow the draft. If called I would serve this country that has treated me so well. You should try looking it at it the same way.

Things in life have prices and its more then the high price of gas. People die every day to keep you driving your civic, dont be so disrespectful and ungrateful to say you'd rather goto jail then to back your fellow american in battle.

[nonovurbizniz]

that's overly simplistic.

It's like saying love it or leave it...

How about staying and trying to improve it?

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AccordinStyle
true...but to bring them back after they, we, whatever have served our/their time is fucked up...all the the anti-war, hippie fuckers on this board are 17 and 18 year old kids that have probably never left there mom's tit....and all of the fucking tree huggers in this country have probably never even left their hometown...you want to have some pride in this country, leave it for awhile and see how the rest of the world lives...I was never "military" even though I was in the Air Force for 6 years but I got to see shit that for damn sure made me glad I was a citizen of the U.S.........

Ok...blanket statements like this only belittle the person who posts. I'm against the war, I'm not a hippie, I'm almost 23, and I've been to quite a few places outside the states. I don't think simply being born somewhere requires you to have "pride". In fact, I'm downright ashamed of many of America's undertakings...past and present. Besides...when we see people fighting against us and the pride they have for their countries we call them zealots. And really...a good portion of the world lives just as well if not better than us. I'll agree that they shouldn't bring back prior enlisteds...maybe ask them first if they want to sign on for another hitch, but not force them. And yeah...the newbies will learn, but that's a waste of money and time that doesn't need to be spent. If you want to be proud just because you were born on a particular piece of land, that's cool. But don't think that anyone else is less of a person because they don't feel the same way.

Whoever has the ad populum sort of "love it or leave it" mentality is clearly thinking backwards. I do enjoy living here...but I'm pretty sure I'd also enjoy living in Germany or Spain or Japan. That said as much as I do like living here, I'm not willing to fight in what I find to be an unjust conflict to prove it. If someone were invading the country or posed a very real threat to us (and the countries that do we've ignored), I'd be right there with my M4 in hand. But until that happens people need to drop this whole "fight for your freedom" bullshit. NOBODY at this moment is fighting for my freedoms...they're too busy fighting for the freedoms of a country half a world away. Just because some of you are enlisted doesn't mean you have to support the war. Does it mean you still have to do your job? Sure. But do you really want to be away from your family and in harm's way fighting someone else's battle? I don't and I won't. Like I said before, I'll go to jail before I join in this orgy of lies, spin, and mistrust. Does that make me less of an American? Not at all. In fact it perhaps makes me more so since we've always been a nation which desent has clearly benefited us. So if you're in the military, good for you. That's not sarcasm...if that's what you wanna do then that's cool. Just don't pretend that those who aren't are any different than you.

Now...go and listen to a copy of Dead Kennedy's "When Ya Get Drafted". All will be made clear.

[95DX]

I tend to fall in between if i were called up I'd probably/most likely go but at the same time I tried to get in at 17/18 and they told me they didn't "want" me because I have nistagnus(sp?) which is a condition where if I turn my eyes in certain directions without moving my head my eyes twitch rapidly it doesn't effect my vision at all in fact I never notice it when it happens but it sort of made me feel like if they don't want me due to that b.s. reason like that then why would I want to try to get/go in

[Kool-Aid]

I stated that maybe the prior enlisted should be drafted over the civilians because yes, it would be wasting money to train them all when you have already trained people. Twas just an idea...and I still think that it could be a good one. I believe that people shuld fight for their country because you do live in it...this is your house. Unless anyone has brought serious threats to out country...I don't think we should be in ANY fight otherwise. Yes, I do miss my friends and family but I am also proud that I tucked in my lip and volunteered to come out here because the people that I work with at Nellis ALL have husbands/wives and kids...I don't. I know that it would be hard for any of them to leave their families and kids to just come out here and risk never seeing them again when I..a single 21 year old female can come out here and do this. Yes, I am proud to serve because of my reasons...because I live in the US and because I don't wanna see anymore torn families. Yes, I have a heart. No, I don't wanna be separatedfrom my family but there are things in life that you've just gotta do...and I am doin it.

[Rob]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Ok...blanket statements like this only belittle the person who posts. I'm against the war, I'm not a hippie, I'm almost 23, and I've been to quite a few places outside the states. I don't think simply being born somewhere requires you to have "pride". In fact, I'm downright ashamed of many of America's undertakings...past and present. Besides...when we see people fighting against us and the pride they have for their countries we call them zealots. And really...a good portion of the world lives just as well if not better than us. I'll agree that they shouldn't bring back prior enlisteds...maybe ask them first if they want to sign on for another hitch, but not force them. And yeah...the newbies will learn, but that's a waste of money and time that doesn't need to be spent. If you want to be proud just because you were born on a particular piece of land, that's cool. But don't think that anyone else is less of a person because they don't feel the same way.

Whoever has the ad populum sort of "love it or leave it" mentality is clearly thinking backwards. I do enjoy living here...but I'm pretty sure I'd also enjoy living in Germany or Spain or Japan. That said as much as I do like living here, I'm not willing to fight in what I find to be an unjust conflict to prove it. If someone were invading the country or posed a very real threat to us (and the countries that do we've ignored), I'd be right there with my M4 in hand. But until that happens people need to drop this whole "fight for your freedom" bullshit. NOBODY at this moment is fighting for my freedoms...they're too busy fighting for the freedoms of a country half a world away. Just because some of you are enlisted doesn't mean you have to support the war. Does it mean you still have to do your job? Sure. But do you really want to be away from your family and in harm's way fighting someone else's battle? I don't and I won't. Like I said before, I'll go to jail before I join in this orgy of lies, spin, and mistrust. Does that make me less of an American? Not at all. In fact it perhaps makes me more so since we've always been a nation which desent has clearly benefited us. So if you're in the military, good for you. That's not sarcasm...if that's what you wanna do then that's cool. Just don't pretend that those who aren't are any different than you.

Now...go and listen to a copy of Dead Kennedy's "When Ya Get Drafted". All will be made clear.
Whatever man...I'm not going to sit here and argue with you but if it wasn't for the military you wouldn't be able to sit there and say "I'm not willing to fight blah blah blah...."....and when I said out of the country I meant to third world countries that don't have the options we do....I'm sure you've never been to the Middle East or Korea....

[juvenile]

Some wars are justified and some aren't. I personally don't believe this war to be a justified one. I have my own opinions and I'm sure others have heard them all repeated before (as I'm not the only one that shares them). That's what people are complaining about. This isn't WW2 where a draft was needed to keep the world from falling apart.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AccordinStyle
Whatever man...I'm not going to sit here and argue with you but if it wasn't for the military you wouldn't be able to sit there and say "I'm not willing to fight blah blah blah...."....and when I said out of the country I meant to third world countries that don't have the options we do....I'm sure you've never been to the Middle East or Korea....

In the past, yes. But give me one example of a military action since the end of WWII that has been a protective measure. Perhaps argueably the short lived fighting in Afghanistan, but even that's a bit of a stretch. As for third world countries...do El Salvador and rural Peru count? Yeah..I've seen my fair share of poverty stricken foreign countries. And I'm smart enough to know not to go to the middle east.

[Rob]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
In the past, yes. But give me one example of a military action since the end of WWII that has been a protective measure. Perhaps argueably the short lived fighting in Afghanistan, but even that's a bit of a stretch. As for third world countries...do El Salvador and rural Peru count? Yeah..I've seen my fair share of poverty stricken foreign countries. And I'm smart enough to know not to go to the middle east.
I'm glad we can agree.....I'm not here to argue...and no, nothing lately has really been a valid fight (for the most part) as far as the conflict thing has gone. But Homeland Security which is the most valid and value military contribution has definitely kept our country safer than it has ever been ever since 9/11. You don't really hear about it behind the scenes but we've had several terrorist attacks stopped before they ever happened.

As for the countries you've been to, yes, they count. As for the Middle East, I didn't have a choice but I would not ever want to go back.........

[Civicfrenzy]

might as well toss my opinion in....

I am def. not in favor of a draft and honestly it is b/c im 19 and i have no desire to go fight. I disagree with the war and if i agreed with it I'm sure if have more willingness to go. I must say however...and yes its alot easier said than done...but i would not dodge the draft if i was chosen. This is just me but there would be thousands of others that would go and not want to so waht makes me so special that i get to skip while another kid my age going to college has to go fight to defend me. Its not fair and i couldnt deal with it...maybe some would say the draft isnt fair either but skipping out of the draft for a just or unjust war is just a shit thing to do IMO.

Also someting that hasnt been mentioned...I think the biggest load of crap about this whole thing is that we went in without the help of NATO. Granted we are the most powerful nation in the world but there is no reason for us to flaunt that power, all it does is make people dislike Americans more...and yes i have been overseas numerous times. I personally hate the fact taht the US is somewaht of a world policeman. Maybe i dont know all the details, and yes lots of the problems (specifically ISreal and Palastine) we started ourselves, but and this may be very shallow, but i dont give a shit how many of their own people they slaughter.

[V8killimports]

God I truely hope ther is a draft.. need some fresh meat to give my ass some time at home for once.

Just keep telling yourself how horrible this war is and how it's all about oil as you mod your car and play fast and the furious. Or you can be happier in another country.. say, canada, france, germany.. but expect to pay about $5.00 a gallon for gas.

[GT40FIED]

I was listening to this song earlier..."When Ya Get Drafted" by the Dead Kennedys. It's funny...it came out in 1980 but shit still hasn't changed much. Just switch a couple things around and you're where we are today. It pretty much described my feelings about where we're at:

Are you believing the morning papers?
War is coming back in style
There's generals here, advisors there
And Russians nibbling everywhere
The chessboard's filling up with red
We make more profits when we blow off their heads

Economy is looking bad
Let's start another war /when ya get drafted
Fan the fires of racist hatred
We want total war /when ya get drafted

Drooling fingers
Panic buttons
Playing with missiles like they're toys
There's easy money, easy jobs
Especially when you build the bombs
That blow big cities off the map
Just guess who profits /when we build 'em back up
Yeah, what Big Business wants Big Business gets

It wants a war /when ya get drafted
Trilateral Commission goonies laugh
and scheme for more /when ya get drafted
Call the Army!
Call the Navy!
Stocked with kids from slums /when ya get drafted
If you can't afford a slick attorney
We might make you a spy

Forget your demonstrations
Kids today sit on their ass /when ya get drafted
Just a six-pack
And you're happy
We're prepared
For when ya get drafted