h22 or turbo my d... Seriously.

[nonovurbizniz]

OK...

I'm getting some money and for under 2k I could either turbo my car or put in an h22 motor...

We have an h22 at my work with shifter ass./linkage engine transmission and computer... I'm gunna get a price from my boss in the next couple of days... but I'm SURE he'll sell it to me for 1k or under... Add up all the extra crap and I should be able to get it all together for under 2k.

We also have LOTS of turbos and parts. I could probobly turbo my D for under 1k with hondata. Turbo intercooler and piping as well as bov are ALL covered already... all I really need is injectors and a fuel computer... then the misc. b.s. that comes along (hoses fittings etc).

So I'm just looking for opinions experiences etc...

I'm also REALLY cheap so I could see myself saying F it to both ideas... but I'm kinda tired of having enough knowledge to have a fast car but never having the will to spend that much money on:
A. Myself
B. An all but worthless car

Of course investing in stress relief certainly doesn't sound too dumb these days... I also may just start doing swaps/work for people on the side...

Oh and another option is to get my boss or one of the guys I work with to stop being dicks and buy me a FULL integra at auction... in which case I'd probobly spend 2k or less and have a swap interior and LOTS of parts to sell to proboboly make my money back....

But getting them to actually produce a car from auction has proven quite difficult...

Anyway I'm ranting... let the opinion parade begin.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

personally i would turbo the D16, here are my reasons:
-i think its a much easier process than to swap in an H22
-once your boosted, you have nearly limitless potential
-since you plan on piecing it together-that means you set ur HP goal and get the right parts
-there's nothing like whoopin' the sh*t out of people with a single cam 1.6 :yes:
-in comparison, if you get the swap and bolt on parts...the potential of those bolt ons can't compare to crankin' up the boost

[pdiggitydogg]

For the price ($1K) Id deal w/ the h22 installation troubles.
In the end you'd be satisfied w/ the fact that its less fuss and little to worry about, unlike turbo maint.
Lots of torque too...thats hard to argue with.

Plus...you could always mod the h down the road.

[IALuder]

i dont get why people want the H22 so badly. anyone person could easie see the H23 is better. a Turbo H23 is better then a Turbo H22. the H23 got my compression and .1L more then the H22. that why i have been considering getting ride of my H22. a Trubo H23 sounds a little better.

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
For the price ($1K) Id deal w/ the h22 installation troubles.
In the end you'd be satisfied w/ the fact that its less fuss and little to worry about, unlike turbo maint.
Lots of torque too...thats hard to argue with.

Plus...you could always mod the h down the road. Personaly, i would do the h22. There is tons more torque and like p-dogg said you can always upgrade the h22 later down the road. An h22 on 6 psi of with beat the piss out a d16 on 10 psi of boost.
You will also need to consider what axels to use, and how your going to upgrade your suspension. Because the added wait of the h22 will make the car handle like ass.

i dont get why people want the H22 so badly. anyone person could easie see the H23 is better. a Turbo H23 is better then a Turbo H22. the H23 got my compression and .1L more then the H22. that why i have been considering getting ride of my H22. a Trubo H23 sounds a little better. Are you serious? The h23 is something like 80hp behind the h22. So you are going to have to add boost to the h23 just to get it up to the h22 level. Thats why no one gets the h23

[thermal]

me too..... I would H22 that baby up for that price.....

[AzCivic]

if you can get the swap for cheap do the h22, its all about the most for your money.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by SFKing
i dont get why people want the H22 so badly. anyone person could easie see the H23 is better. a Turbo H23 is better then a Turbo H22. the H23 got my compression and .1L more then the H22. that why i have been considering getting ride of my H22. a Trubo H23 sounds a little better.

the h22 has about 30more hp than the h23.

.1L isnt that much of a difference.

[nonovurbizniz]

well thanks for all the input...

I'm definately leaning towards the H22... my d has 186,000 miles on it so turboing probobly isn't the best idea... I'll rebuild that one over time while it's out of the car I think...

Oh yeah I forgot to mention there are 2 h22's at work... one that's known good and another the the car burned... so we can't really sell it for much anyway... he may GIVE me that engine... I'd just end up paying for the tranny and other misc. stuff...

But there are a LOT of extra expensive that have me fearing spending a LOT more money than just he cost of the engine/tranny/ecu...

Mounts springs/struts *MAYBE (I'm thinking I may test out the idea that stock springs can't handle them)*header etc.

[nonovurbizniz]

Oh and just to earn my signiture...

A. a turbo d16 has way LESS potential than an h22... the h22 would make more power (especially at lower rpms) stock than a turbo d16 would make without a build of somesort.
B. I don't "want an h22" I can get one for DIRT cheap...

Oh and I talked to the guy I work with about getting my an acura and he said "I'll get you one"... which doesn't really mean he will but I know he can... it's just a matter of finding one that has a good engine/tranny and is still decently low in miles...

I really like the h22 idea more than anything else though.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

looking at your situation, it is best to prolly go with the h22, its time to give your d a rest (or a rebuild) since it has 186000 miles on it..

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the sleeves on the h22 fairly weak and it can only handle a low amount of boost?

[nonovurbizniz]

I don't know frankly... boost would NOT be in the future for the h22 as far as I can predict from now.

I'm gunna get a price from my boss on both of the h22's with the tranny computer and shiftlinkage we have there...

Depending on what he wants from me I'll do that... otherwise I can't really afford to turbo my current engine and have it blow...

But if I can get another engine in my car I can get mine rebuilt for cheap... My buddy knows a guy with a machine shop in his garage... including all the tools neccisary to remove and re-sleeve a block... he'll do it cheap too I think...

Who knows... I don't even have the money in my hand and I'm already thinking it's gunna be dumb to spend soo much...

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
looking at your situation, it is best to prolly go with the h22, its time to give your d a rest (or a rebuild) since it has 186000 miles on it..

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the sleeves on the h22 fairly weak and it can only handle a low amount of boost? Ive seen stock h22s boosted at 6psi for 2 years. 6 psi on an h22 is around 290 at the crank. You wouldn't really need alot of boost

[nonovurbizniz]

The point of the h22 for me at least would be that I could leave it NA and have a good all around power band with decent torque...

If I wanted more power out of it (I doubt that'd happen till I got an LSD) I'd go with bolt on's or cams etc...

I like the idea of having one of honda's smoother running engines combined with stock reliability and gobs of power for the application.

I'm pretty sure turboing the D is out at this point... I'd really like to rebuild it and put it in a stripped hatch... You'd think I could get a salvage title one dirt cheap considering that's what my boss does... but that hasn't worked out for the acura's yet... lol (in a losing my mind kinda way).

It's either H22 or more realistically getting a whole acura and using that engine/tranny and selling off the rest to make the money back... I'd prefer that cuz then maybe I could get the guy to keep getting my acura's to part out.

[pdiggitydogg]

you mean buy an entire car (integra) and sell the rolling chassis, right?
That doesnt sound like too bad of an idea.....it's like a treasure trove of parts....

[Honda_Tengoku]

Originally posted by drdingo21
Personaly, i would do the h22. There is tons more torque and like p-dogg said you can always upgrade the h22 later down the road. An h22 on 6 psi of with beat the piss out a d16 on 10 psi of boost.
You will also need to consider what axels to use, and how your going to upgrade your suspension. Because the added wait of the h22 will make the car handle like ass.

Are you serious? The h23 is something like 80hp behind the h22. So you are going to have to add boost to the h23 just to get it up to the h22 level. Thats why no one gets the h23

u act like the H22 is soo much heavier. Its only 70 pounds heavier than a B16, and it wont handle terribly.

[Honda_Tengoku]

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
looking at your situation, it is best to prolly go with the h22, its time to give your d a rest (or a rebuild) since it has 186000 miles on it..

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the sleeves on the h22 fairly weak and it can only handle a low amount of boost?


92-96 H22 blocks have a closed deck, and are able to withstand about 10 PSI no problems.


97+ H22's are open deck and can only handle about 6 PSI

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by AzCivic
if you can get the swap for cheap do the h22, its all about the most for your money.


No man, b00sted D'z PWN3 All - (not really)


Put in the H22 motor, and become > all other hondas.

And, while ur at it, make planz for us to meet this summer or something since you live near me.

[pdiggitydogg]

actually, full h's are only around 35lbs heavier than b's
(b16)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by Honda_Tengoku
u act like the H22 is soo much heavier. Its only 70 pounds heavier than a B16, and it wont handle terribly. No, the h22 and trans is like 40lbs heavier than the B. And his suspension isn't tuned for the B seriers, its tuned for the d. And between the d and the h there is about 80lbs.

If you don't think 80lbs will make your car handle like ass then throw two 40lbs bags of salt in your trunk and go take some corners.

[nonovurbizniz]

I put WELL over 60-100 lbs in my trunk regularly... It's not that big of a deal..

Part of my included extra costs would be GC's with custom rates for the front to handle the extra weight...

Just FYI... one of the mods over on honda-tech has a STRIPPED hatche with a typeR motor in it... he raced one of his buddies with an h22 in a almost as stripped hatch... and he got it HANDED to him... EVERYWHERE...

People who have autocrossed with h22'd civics have had LOTS of succes... they RIP out of the corners MUCH MUCH faster than any other civic is going to...

PLUS... with a CF hood battery re-location and springs... the car could be tuned to handle MUCH better than a stock civic...

People over blow all the downsides of the h22.

but again... all the hidden costs are going to prevent me from even thinking about it unless my boss will give me the engine tranny ecu and shifter/linkage for under 500... which isn't all that likely... who knows maybe.

[drdingo21]

Im not saying, You car will e undrivable. But if you go drive through the corners right now, and then do the h22 swap and try the same corners, i guarantee you, there will be a huge difference

[cashizslick]

^ Huge difference in the time it takes him to get thru the corners :stickman:

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by cashizslick
^ Huge difference in the time it takes him to get thru the corners :stickman: Thank you, When you change weight that much it throws off the weight dist. for the car and the suspension is not tuned for.

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by drdingo21
Thank you, When you change weight that much it throws off the weight dist. for the car and the suspension is not tuned for.
I meant that he will be thru it a lot faster with the motor :chicken:

Actually, the H22 weight probs w/civic chassi are way too exagerated - with some good suspension werk, he will be fine :stickman: :stickman: :stickman: :stickman: :stickman: :stickman: :stickman:.

[nonovurbizniz]

I've talked to people with h22's with stock supsension... again.. it's exagerated..

60lbs is NOT very much... especially considering 90% of that weight is actually lower than it was before (the bottom of the h22 sits MUCH MUCH lower than the stock engine and ALL the weight is down low in the tranny and rotating mass)... this would give you a lower center of gravity... and in turn better handling..

The only handling problems you'd have from too much weight on the front springs is bounciness because they're over-worked... but if your struts are in good shape they should compensate.

Other than that there are PLENTY of good handling cars with a lot of weight up front and an h22 in a civic would NOT make the distribution much more than stock... DEFINATELY not enough to make it over 70/30...

[IALuder]

how bout this. you buy a different car and sell yours. after all the money youll spend buying and putting in the H22 or buying the acura is about the same as a newer car.

[Honda_Tengoku]

Originally posted by drdingo21
No, the h22 and trans is like 40lbs heavier than the B. And his suspension isn't tuned for the B seriers, its tuned for the d. And between the d and the h there is about 80lbs.

If you don't think 80lbs will make your car handle like ass then throw two 40lbs bags of salt in your trunk and go take some corners.

negative. your info is wrong. Also I wouldnt say it handles like ass, it definately wont handle as well as a D series but its not horrible.

H series is 175-185 pounds heavier than the D, and about 70-85 pounds heavier than the B16

http://www.hasport.com/Tech/Installs/Swap%20Outlines/92-95%20Civic%20H.htm

get your facts straight b4 u start calling people out


Originally posted by SFKing
how bout this. you buy a different car and sell yours. after all the money youll spend buying and putting in the H22 or buying the acura is about the same as a newer car.

yes but u wont be nearly as fast man. Also it doesnt take that much. It can cost as little as 3500 dollars. Also there is something to be proud of when u build a hybrid.
just my 2 cents though.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
I've talked to people with h22's with stock supsension... again.. it's exagerated..

especially considering 90% of that weight is actually lower than it was before (the bottom of the h22 sits MUCH MUCH lower than the stock engine and ALL the weight is down low in the tranny and rotating mass)... this would give you a lower center of gravity... and in turn better handling..

The only handling problems you'd have from too much weight on the front springs is bounciness because they're over-worked... but if your struts are in good shape they should compensate.

Other than that there are PLENTY of good handling cars with a lot of weight up front and an h22 in a civic would NOT make the distribution much more than stock... DEFINATELY not enough to make it over 70/30...

my sentiments exactly. Also something to think about is an H22 in a Civic sits very far forward, and has better traction out of the hole. 1.90 60 foots on Falkien Azenis street tires with stock suspension is not unheard of in an H22'd hatch. So with proper spring rates and shocks u can have a corner burner, and good straightline traction (for a honda anyways).

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
actually, full h's are only around 35lbs heavier than b's
(b16)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550

that is just the short block dry weight. I am talking about a complete B series versus a coomplete H series. I have no doubt that it is only 35 pounds heavier with just the short block and the tranny, but u need to take into consideration the head, the intake manifold, and all the other accessories. If u have ever seen the B16 intake manifold and compared it to the H22's, there is a huge difference. The casting is soo much larger. That alone will add a few pouds dont u think. Just think of everything else that will add weight. Think of the big picture my friend.

[pdiggitydogg]

right the head is abour 10lbs more, unless i got my facts wrong.
And youre right, thats not including fluids (which weigh a lot) and manifolds.
Ok I concede

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by SFKing
how bout this. you buy a different car and sell yours. after all the money youll spend buying and putting in the H22 or buying the acura is about the same as a newer car.

If you read the thread I'm expecting to pay somewhere between 1-2k COMPLETE... on any of the mentioned ventures...

The acura wouldn't cost more the 2k whole... that leaves me with EVERYTHING but the engine/tranny to part out... I can almost guarantee I'll make my money back and more...

The h22 is from my work... I should be able to get it for under 1k if not less for one we have that was in a fire... that will cost more to get running though...

The extra costs of the swap should be more than an additional 1k.

mounts, axels, computer reprograming, springs/struts, that's about it... I would most likely use the stock manifold (I believe it's possible).

I have full access to a shop with all the tools I could possibly need...

AND...

A. As mentioned... building a hybrid yourself is a LOT more satisfiing than buying a new acura.
B. I hate ALL acura's... the only one I like is the 95 or so legend... other than that I wouldn't drive one.
C. Buying ANY running car would cost more than I plan on spending on any of these plans.
D. NO factory car would perform even remotely close to a turbo'd d, a gsr civic or a h22 civic.
E. I have too much time and effort invested in this chassis.

I'm kind of balking on the h22 though... I may do it eventually... right now I'm really shooting for the whole acura...

[Mirkwo0dForest]

yea and when u get hungrey u can chomp them bags of salt UP!! MmmMMmMmMMmmM!!!

[Shaved &/or Laid]

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
personally i would turbo the D16, here are my reasons:
-i think its a much easier process than to swap in an H22
-once your boosted, you have nearly limitless potential
-since you plan on piecing it together-that means you set ur HP goal and get the right parts
-there's nothing like whoopin' the sh*t out of people with a single cam 1.6 :yes:
-in comparison, if you get the swap and bolt on parts...the potential of those bolt ons can't compare to crankin' up the boost

too bad some people never think about turbo h22's. lets see a cake ass D series beat that.

even a stock h22 will fuck up a boosted D series any day. If he can drive (im sure he can) then hes gonna be running 13's with slight modification. and its gonna be stock reliability with a solid powerband. plus, the hassle of building is a lot more annoying than a h22 swap, trust me. You can push arond 500whp out of a h22 easy..on PUMP GAS. a little D motor with 300whp is definitely not gonna run on pump gas, and its gonna have huge turbo lag, and need everything built to where its not even a D anymore.


....im done stating obvious stuff, stock h22 > d turbo. period. dont listen to people who havent been out in the field enough to know that a stock 13 second car is better than a turbo 14 second car. that being said, im sure theres gonna be a lot of links to drag cars with D motors that run 13s...with parachutes and stripped interiors also (lame)

[AzCivic]

and i guess you dont have to build up an h22 to make 500hp?
rediculous.

"out in the field" aaaaaaaahahahahhahahah

[pdiggitydogg]

.............(here it comes)
I got a sunburn today

[Honda_Tengoku]

the H22 has a better platform to start from than a D series. what do they say, "no replacement for displacement". Sure a turbo D will be quick and possibly faster than a stock H series (it depends on boost, and tune and alot of other factors, very hard to say at this point). U just need to look at the potential here. The D series potential is very limited compared to the H22. As a matter of fact I met someone last week that runs a T4 turbo on his Prelude (yes thats right a T4). He sure has some huge turbo lag, but its all worth it when it spools at 5000 RPM. A very streetable 18 PSI it Dyno'd at 497 to the wheels. He hasnt even begun to boost that bad boy. Obviously the T4 is capable of so much more. A D series would be very hard to get to that level, not to mention I seriously doubt a D series would be streetable at 497 WHP. Just my 2 cents though.

[nonovurbizniz]

I'm not looking for that...

Out of either the h22 a b or a turbo d I'm looking for in the neighborhood of 160-200 hp... I'm not looking for some rediculous un-handlable beast... Just enough power to make some people punch their steering wheels, and me not have to down shift to go up hills on the highway.