Military

[Kool-Aid]

I've noticed that there are a couple of people who are in the military...what branch are you in? What was your basic training like?

I am in the Air Force and my basic training was not like what I had expected it to be. It actually was easier than what I had thought. My basic training lasted only six weeks. The first couple of weeks you're getting adjusted and you have to wake up at the butt-crack of dawn just to run and march...the middle of the month we got issued more uniforms and we were sitting in classes just to learn about customs and courtesies and all that jazz...and the fifth week we went to warrior week where we had to go out into the woods for a week living in tents...and the last week we just practiced marching for graduation...which was useless because it rained the day I graduated...
My lovely basic training experience.

[pimpinprelude]

not old enough yet...

[IALuder]

hahah air force is like a tea party to my marine camp.

im a USMC, job: Demolition Engineer, what does that mean:i blow shit up. boot camp 16 weeks. the last 3 days of boot camp were the hardest and toughtest. no food no sleep no nothing. its called the curible if you guys dont know. if one person in my outfit screwed up, we all screwed up. i did more push ups in one minute then you could in one day. sure after 10 weeks we had classes but they only last so long then it was back to marching and running and working out.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by SFKing
hahah air force is like a tea party to my marine camp.

im a USMC, job: Demolition Engineer, what does that mean:i blow shit up. boot camp 16 weeks. the last 3 days of boot camp were the hardest and toughtest. no food no sleep no nothing. its called the curible if you guys dont know. if one person in my outfit screwed up, we all screwed up. i did more push ups in one minute then you could in one day. sure after 10 weeks we had classes but they only last so long then it was back to marching and running and working out.

How many pushups did you do in 1 minute?

And to each there own.. I rather stay in 4-5 star hotels througout the world including Thailand, Italy, Scotland, Guam, Japan then live in a tent cooking my own shit for dinner.

[Kool-Aid]

Yea...we'd all rather do so but somebody's gotta do what we do...and yes...it was a tea party...
Sounds like this Crucible thing was tough...did anybody crack??

[MegaDON]

I went through some of the airforce combat controller school but washed out and became a firefighter....cracked a rib. but i like my job.

[V8killimports]

I have a combat controller that lives next door to my right, and a green beret to my left next door.

[IALuder]

2 people my outfit cracked. i really wish they didnt. as for how many push ups in one minute we were required to do 100 to get in and 300 at the end of camp. now how many of you would actually like to do 300 push ups a day? as for living in a tent and eating my own shit. ill simply tell you this. thanks for people like me and others who fought before me, you got your damn freedom. i personally think everyone should server at least 3yrs in the service to be a citizen. i shouldnt have to fight for your beleifs/freedom you should. even if we have the same beliefs/freedoms.

[V8killimports]

LOL I got my damn freedom thanks to you? Sorry son, I been to fucking war. Have you??

[AzCivic]

theres is no freaking way to do 300pushups in a minute, i dont give a crap what service your in. anything over 80 is pushing on impossible.

[thermal]

Shit... I've been in a while. Boot camp is almost washed off my memory. I just know that it was a freaking joke. I didnt even get to shoot a gun nor swim a lot. That's what I thought I would be doing before I joined the Navy. I did alot of fire fighting...still do.

My job:
Gas Turbine Sytems (mechanical)... E-6..... hopefully make E-7 this August). My main job is to supervise all engineering and mechanical aspects of shipboard gas turbine propulsion and power generation. I stand too much watch and qualified to run/supervise/operate the whole Engineering department of a destroyer.

[AzCivic]

i'm in the airforce too, a weather forecaster.

do a bunch of stupid shit and get shot at or work in a nice comfy office, get paid the same either way. it was a tough decision.

[V8killimports]

Yea no matter how half assed you do them 300 in a minute is impossible.

[IALuder]

as for me being to war. that time is coming in less than 9 months. im being shipped to iraq if the war isnt over. as for 300 in a minute yes i let my imagation take over. i wasnt targeting just you in that part of my post about the freedom.

[Kool-Aid]

Im in war right now...I've been here for almost a month and a half and it's not a cup of tea...it sucks. NEVER come to Iraq...if you can help it. We were supposed to get hit these past couple of days but I guess we didn't...than goodness. I actually have to sit and remind myself that I am in a combat zone...a place that none of my friends and family has never been before...

I just feel bad for the army because they have to be out here for a year and more...I couldn't do that...I don't think.

[Kyle]

I think i'm gonna have to call the major fucking BS on all of SFKINGs posts in this therad...on the fact that he's not even 18 yet...and bootcamp isn't 16 weeks long...and it's impossible to do 300 pushups in 1 minute...and the crucible isn't the the last 3 days of bootcamp. And if you were a Marine you'd always capitalize the word Marine.

well, anyways...back on topic. I'm about to be DEP'd in the the Marine Corps. I'm still thinking whether i should be a mechanic or if i should go the infantry route...as soon as i figuer that out i'll be ready to go

[thermal]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Im in war right now...I've been here for almost a month and a half and it's not a cup of tea...it sucks. NEVER come to Iraq...if you can help it. We were supposed to get hit these past couple of days but I guess we didn't...than goodness. I actually have to sit and remind myself that I am in a combat zone...a place that none of my friends and family has never been before...

I just feel bad for the army because they have to be out here for a year and more...I couldn't do that...I don't think.
I definitely agree. It suks out there. I still feel lucky for being in the Navy since we are not "hand-to-hand" combat. We just float forever and do out thing. I got back June from all this crap. I kind of want to go back and make money......

[IALuder]

well kyle maybe i dont think capitolize the M on Marine is that damn important. plus you dont have to be 18 to be the Marines you dumb fuck. your parents can sign you in retard. as for the hole 300 pushs up in one minute. yea i already said i was exaggerating. and the curcible is 3 days long. hell have you been to boot camp? ok then.

[Kool-Aid]

I didn't think you were allowed to be in the military unless you were out of high school...it was just confusing to me when you talked about your senior prom...

[Kool-Aid]

Yea...I came out here for the money too...so that I can get that turbo kit hooked up...im halfway through my tour and I've already bought parts....ha ha ha...Im bad!!! My mom's all wonderin where all these packages came from...ha ha ha:)

[IALuder]

nice lol. you sign up and go threw boot while your on summer break from high school. but your perants have to sign some papers saying its ok.

[Kyle]

Originally posted by SFKing
well kyle maybe i dont think capitolize the M on Marine is that damn important. plus you dont have to be 18 to be the Marines you dumb fuck. your parents can sign you in retard. as for the hole 300 pushs up in one minute. yea i already said i was exaggerating. and the curcible is 3 days long. hell have you been to boot camp? ok then.
well, if you were a Marine you would capitalize it. I know my parents can sign when you're 17...but you're still not a Marine. And i don't care if you were exaggerating or not, it's still a lie. And i said the crucible is NOT the LAST 3 days of bootcamp. I didn't say it wasn't 3 days long asshat. So all in all...you're not a Marine, so don't act like you are. And don't try to be an asshole and put other services down either. they all have their jobs that need to be done. It's not a fucking popularity contest, keeping our country safe is all that matters.

[Kool-Aid]

Kyle...I don't think he was putting any other service down...if he did I would have to put the Air Force hold on him...he he he;)
Anyway, if he went through basica training...then you would be considered to be marine...I would assume.

[IALuder]

after basic your a Marine. your not a Marine till after basic training. plus were did i put another service down. i dont understand why your trying to put words in my mouth so you can seem to know what your talking about.

[Kyle]

Originally posted by SFKing
hahah air force is like a tea party to my marine camp.

:|

[GeneralDzur]

Originally posted by SFKing
hahah air force is like a tea party to my marine camp.

its called the curible if you guys dont know. i did more push ups in one minute then you could in one day.

You seem like a humble guy...

Actually, it's called the CRUCIBLE...not the curible....Sorry to have an Army guy tell you that. (My best best bud is Marines)

Army boot camp was tough, (though not as long as Marines). I hated it while I was in it, but looking back it was one of the best times of my life. I got to shoot the M-203 grenade launcher, the SAW machine gun, grenades, M16 rifle, and finally (because I scored highest on the M16) a live AT-4 anti-tank missile. Did a lot of pushups. In fact, we have a PT test coming up in May, so I've been trying to get ready for it.

The last part of boot camp was 3 days called Victory Forge (or FTX). 3 days - no sleep, one MRE a day, and....yeah, getting gas grenades thrown in your foxhole while you're sleeping.

The gas chamber was....fun....;(

- Dzur

PS I'm the second guy back doing pushups..this was graduation day

[Kool-Aid]

Yea...Air Force had FTX during Warrior Week...where you had to do all this training on one week...what was really toush was the NBC trining wher eyou were in 200 degree weather wearing chem gear...then you had a partner who had to do things with you and if they messed up...you wanted to strangle them...
All in a nutshell...warrior week was the most difficult...but then again it was fun...you HAD to keep up or you'll get jacked up...I shot the M-16...that was it.

[wal]

well i wouldnt personally join any of the services because i dont think ya can put a wage on someones head. All though all the training sound great fun and that. i still dont think ya can pay ppl like slightly over the min wage and ask them to put their live on the line, not for me, no thanx. but dont get me wrong i have great respect for ppl who are in the services. i prefur something of the less dangerous job describtion and get paid like twice as much and do half the work ;)

[GeneralDzur]

Originally posted by wal
well i wouldnt personally join any of the services because i dont think ya can put a wage on someones head. All though all the training sound great fun and that. i still dont think ya can pay ppl like slightly over the min wage and ask them to put their live on the line, not for me, no thanx. but dont get me wrong i have great respect for ppl who are in the services. i prefur something of the less dangerous job describtion and get paid like twice as much and do half the work ;)


Lol...at least you're honest. Remember though - military doesn't pay barely over minimum wage - for instance, as a Private First Class, I get around 1,400 - $1500 a month, plus EVERYTHING is payed for (food, housing, etc..)

Actually, we're getting ready to be deployed here pretty soon.

- Dzur

[Kool-Aid]

Understandable wal.
The only reason why I even got into the military was because I had a lot going on that promoted a lot of stress at that time...I needed a break so to speak and I took it. Now that I am in and I know how it is...I wouldn't mind staying in...

[IALuder]

the main reason why i joined was free college. and if you ever want to go back they pay for it. ever change your career and they can help you get start in that feild.

[GeneralDzur]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Understandable wal.
The only reason why I even got into the military was because I had a lot going on that promoted a lot of stress at that time...I needed a break so to speak and I took it. Now that I am in and I know how it is...I wouldn't mind staying in...

And that's another thing...why are 99% of Army and Marine girls really manly and ugly? Just wondering...

- Dzur

[Kool-Aid]

Well I am assuming they get that way because of the training and constantly being around testosterone 24/7...I dunno.
When I was in tech school I saw this female just as butch as a girl can get...girl was about 210 lbs...her sleeves on her BDU's probably had to be peeled off her huge arms and she was talking like the guys...I was like....WOOOOWWW.
I almost joined the Marines too...

[thermal]

I almost joined the AF....

[black95gs-t]

Originally posted by SFKing
hahah air force is like a tea party to my marine camp.

im a USMC, job: Demolition Engineer, what does that mean:i blow shit up. boot camp 16 weeks. the last 3 days of boot camp were the hardest and toughtest. no food no sleep no nothing. its called the curible if you guys dont know. if one person in my outfit screwed up, we all screwed up. i did more push ups in one minute then you could in one day. sure after 10 weeks we had classes but they only last so long then it was back to marching and running and working out.
Thats funny. When did you go to boot camp? It wasn't like that when I went through. What unit are you with?

[Kool-Aid]

Why didn't you get into the Air Force Thermalfi'd16?

[thermal]

....stupid reasons..... the recruiters already made their quota for the month but I could've dep'd in. I was so eager to get the fuk out of the house since I couldnt deal with my stepmother anymore. I walked next door and joined the Navy. My stepmom was stationed in Vegas. She retired there as a Major......

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by SFKing
i shouldnt have to fight for your beleifs/freedom you should. even if we have the same beliefs/freedoms.

You NOR I should have to fight for BUSH'S beliefs...

I'll fight for my own... certainly not his though.

Nothing like being the pawn in a hillbilly's revenge plot.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
You NOR I should have to fight for BUSH'S beliefs...

I'll fight for my own... certainly not his though.

Nothing like being the pawn in a hillbilly's revenge plot.

Are you in the military?

[black95gs-t]

My guess is no. BTW, are you in the military SF?

[02_Si]

I am in the military. I just got out of basic training last week on Friday. I just started class in AIT about three days ago. My MOS is 31R- Multi Channel Transmission System Operator/ Maintainer. The first few days of school is confusing as hell... talking about MSRT's and RAU's and shit. Anyone else in Commo? Basic training was easy as hell. They started a new PT program that is WEAK! I am 22 yrs old so I have to get 75 pushups, 80 situps in 2 minutes to MAX the PT test!! That is weak. I ended up doing 74 pushups and 80 situps and ran the 2 mile run in 13:58. The funest thing in basic was probably BRM- Basic Rifle Marksmanship and also the Gas chamber! Damn, that gas fucks your shit up. Your throat and shit starts burning and you start gaggin and all this snot and shit starts coming out of your nose and mouth. I don't have a lot of time to write but I'll go more into it later. Gotta go do guard duty right now. ;( Four hours of duty!! :mad: Peace.

[IALuder]

yes Im in the USMC. MY MOS 2336 Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician.

[pbateson]

I don't like Military cuz it too rickly to me.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by SFKing
yes Im in the USMC. MY MOS 2336 Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician.

I was asking noneofyourblahblah.. just wondering..

[IALuder]

Originally posted by black95gs-t
My guess is no. BTW, are you in the military SF?

just cuase you fighting with daviso in the not a chance thread doesnt mean you got to bring your angre here and direct it at me when you didnt read the post right below yours.

[Kool-Aid]

Thermal, so your stepmom was Air Force then?

I think I am the only person on my mom's side fo the family to be in the military...my dad's side...I've come to discover that there's a lot of people in the military but since my parents divorced...I never got to know my dad's side of the family so I don't know who these people are or what branch they're in.

[GeneralDzur]

Originally posted by 02_Si
I am in the military. I just got out of basic training last week on Friday. I just started class in AIT about three days ago. My MOS is 31R- Multi Channel Transmission System Operator/ Maintainer. The first few days of school is confusing as hell... talking about MSRT's and RAU's and shit. Anyone else in Commo? Basic training was easy as hell. They started a new PT program that is WEAK! I am 22 yrs old so I have to get 75 pushups, 80 situps in 2 minutes to MAX the PT test!! That is weak. I ended up doing 74 pushups and 80 situps and ran the 2 mile run in 13:58. The funest thing in basic was probably BRM- Basic Rifle Marksmanship and also the Gas chamber! Damn, that gas fucks your shit up. Your throat and shit starts burning and you start gaggin and all this snot and shit starts coming out of your nose and mouth. I don't have a lot of time to write but I'll go more into it later. Gotta go do guard duty right now. ;( Four hours of duty!! :mad: Peace.

Hey man, where you at AIT at? I did 57 pushups (oh well), 82 situps, and ran the run in 12:47. By "guard duty" you mean Hall Guard or Fire Guard, right? I hated AIT at FT Gordon...I was there for freaking 19 weeks. But 31Romeo - I know all about that MOS. I'm a 74Bravo, which is a Information Systems Analyst Operator (basically a computer geek that sets up Cisco networks)

Good luck while you're there though. Send us some pics...oh yeah...*if* you're allowed to have camera's.

- Dzur

[nonovurbizniz]

Nope... not in the military...

I couldn't ever be a part of a killing machine I didn't have any say in what/when we killed...

I'd be an insubordenant soldier... so I wouldn't ever be one.

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
You NOR I should have to fight for BUSH'S beliefs...

I'll fight for my own... certainly not his though.

Nothing like being the pawn in a hillbilly's revenge plot.

Ok then.. please don't talk like you fight for anything, because you don't. Please sit at home and enjoy your cookies and milk.

[Kool-Aid]

Ha ha ha...wow...what was that all about V8killimports?

[MegaDON]

I remember when i got back from the dessert people were protesting us, i think they don't have anyone they care about in the service or don't make an educated decision and decide to protest on propaganda. If they knew someone that was in they would understand

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by MegaDON
I remember when i got back from the dessert people were protesting us, i think they don't have anyone they care about in the service or don't make an educated decision and decide to protest on propaganda. If they knew someone that was in they would understand

Or if they had any idea what was really going on during Saddam's reign they might have a different attitude. The thing is, if your oly exposure to what happens over there is the news, then you don't have a clue as to what goes on.

[GeneralDzur]

Very true. That kind of crap pisses me off.

- Dzur

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Or if they had any idea what was really going on during Saddam's reign they might have a different attitude. The thing is, if your oly exposure to what happens over there is the news, then you don't have a clue as to what goes on.

OH.... so saddam is the worst dictator in the world...

What was it Bush said in the campaign for president about the clinton administration's tendency to "nation build"...

RIGHHHT...

And as far as noone who isn't in the army can talk... please. that's just a bunch of b.s.

My sister actually spends LOTS of time in the middle east... I'm pretty well aware of what happens over there... obviously not as well as someone who's there...

You're also making a LOT of assumptions on my stance...

I said before we invaded... they should cut all the b.s. about 9/11 & terrorism support and just admit that bush wanted to finish what his dad should have the first time...

My problem is if we're going to start running around invading every country that has a terrible leader we've got a LOT better one's to choose from than Iraq... we also have a LONG list... I don't know about you but us against the world doesn't sound to intelligent to me.

If supporting terror gets you invaded then WHY would we be in Iraq... Saddam didn't want anything to do with terrorists... he's barely even a muslim... he's a capatalist...

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, and COUNTLESS other countries are a MUCH bigger threat to us directly as well as MUCH more supportive of anti-american/western terrorism than Iraq ever was or would have been under Saddam.

A democratic Iraq is more likely to have a MORE anti-american sentiment than Saddams Iraq ever would have.

Bush is a talking monkey yielding the power of the greatest army/nation in the world... I certainly wouldn't ever want to follow his whim.

P.S.

Originally posted by V8killimports
Ok then.. please don't talk like you fight for anything, because you don't. Please sit at home and enjoy your cookies and milk.

Oh so Bush should sit at home and enjoy his milk and cookies too huh?

Wish I could get away with going to the national guard flying antiquated airplanes and not even showing up... ALL during a draft.

[Kool-Aid]

Speaking under the freedom that some of us provide...

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Speaking under the freedom that some of us provide...

Damn straight..
and if you think saddam wanted nothing to do with terrorism you are a true idiot. Do a fucking bit a reasearch please.

http://www.intellnet.org/news/2003/02/12/16726-1.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/880255/posts

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

http://www.metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-46/reg/iraqi_defector_tells.htm

http://mailman.xmission.com/pipermail/pax-americana/2003-March/001042.html

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/archive/article/0,,4296646,00.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm

Lemme know if that's enough.. I can find lots more for you.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Speaking under the freedom that some of us provide...

I've managed to stay out of this so far...but this kinda gets me. This is in no way directed at you Kool-Aid, but that kind of thinking really gets to me. Yes, I understand that some military folks put their asses on the line for this country and I honestly do appreciate that...but I can't stand this "we fight to protect your freedom" holier than thou shit. A lot of people who will tell you this are the ones with desk jobs...like sending out that memo was the difference between democracy and anarchy. The ONLY war ever fought on America's part for freedom was the Revolutionary war. Everything else has either been a "go in and save their asses" police action or us lending support to another's defense (although WWII may be argueable on that point...possibly the civil war as well...but that was our own doing). The people in Iraq right now are in no way, shape, or form protecting any of my freedoms at the moment. If anything, they're perpetuating legislation that is eliminating my freedoms due to the war on errorism (no...that's not a typo). Bush has turned into this little kid on a playground. He's not big enough to fight his own battles so he pays a bigger kid to do it. It's just that he's got a MUCH bigger kid doing his dirty work in the form of the United States armed forces. If anything our prescence in Iraq is only pissing more and more people off, much like our being in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf "war" (quotations used because we haven't actually gone to the trouble of actually declaring war in over 50 years). Military folks like to quip to non-military folks about how they protect all of our freedoms and whatnot...but it's pathetic to think the only way to protect your freedom is by picking up a gun or flying a plane. Yes, many of these people put themselves in harm's way and I respect the courage it takes to do so...just don't chastise me for not wanting to be part of something I see as immoral (although fundamentally necessary to a certain extent). Why the hell are we even in Iraq? Colin Powell came right out and said we couldn't find any direct link between Osama and Saddam. So beware countries who have no direct link to terrorism...we'll bomb your ass. Weapons of mass distraction? Well...we've been there over a year and still nothing. And to think those UN bastards wanted us to hold off until we found them. Saddam's out and that's great...but it the job of the citizens of that country to overthrow him, not ours. Especially if our own government will admit we can't find a direct link between Saddam and terrorists. The bottom line? At the moment my freedoms are just fine...don't feel like you need to protect them. If they're ever in danger, I will be the one fighting for them. Unlike our dictat...errr...president, I can handle my own dirty work.

[Rob]

GT...I respect what you are saying but I think you're an idiot...I'VE stayed out of this for as long as I can but what you said pissed me off...you one of those ignorant fucks that's only patriotic when your asshole has just been saved from being seperated from your backside....I also agree that you have alot of desk jockeys in the military that preech that how the world is a safer place due to that fact that stapled two pieces of paper together. But where was your ass when 9/11 happened?? There are alot of people in the military and the government that keep stupid shit from happening to the U.S. Whether it's wrong or right, this country was founded on the fact that we have a set of nuts and aren't afraid to use them...

Oh...and you can fight for your own freedoms, huh? Well how about you get your ass dropped off in the middle of Iraq or Saudi Arabia and we'll see how long you last......

[V8killimports]

Ok..

First off, let's but this WMD shit behind us. Iraq DID have them , and there was 100% proof of that. He didn't sprinkle a 100,000 kurds with magic fucking fairy dust.

Contrary to what many people believe, we don't have freedom because of the protestors that have nothing to contribute to society, we have out freedom because of war and bloodshed.. nothing more.

Now going back to iraq.. the politicians, as well as the people back home that have not left their 600 population town of ala-fucking-bama have no clue what really goes on there. You people cannot possibly fathom what goes on there, and what went on there on a day to day basis in that country.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AccordinStyle
GT...I respect what you are saying but I think you're an idiot...I'VE stayed out of this for as long as I can but what you said pissed me off...you one of those ignorant fucks that's only patriotic when your asshole has just been saved from being seperated from your backside....I also agree that you have alot of desk jockeys in the military that preech that how the world is a safer place due to that fact that stapled two pieces of paper together. But where was your ass when 9/11 happened?? There are alot of people in the military and the government that keep stupid shit from happening to the U.S. Whether it's wrong or right, this country was founded on the fact that we have a set of nuts and aren't afraid to use them...

Oh...and you can fight for your own freedoms, huh? Well how about you get your ass dropped off in the middle of Iraq or Saudi Arabia and we'll see how long you last......

Patriotic? Who ever said I was patriotic? I don't think simply being born in a certain place gives you an obligation to say that you love it. That is to say, I do enjoy living here...I think it's the lesser of a whole lot of evils. But we're still a deeply flawed society and there are a lot of our own issues that get pushed aside in favor of ideals in other nations that have little or nothing to do with us. Where was my ass when 9/11 happened? Fairly intoxicated in front of my television shaking my head...pretty much the same place as everyone else, including the vast majority of the military. Your hypothesis that this country was founded on the fact that we've got a set of "nuts", as you've eloquently put it, is actually incorrect. We're a country founded on the idea that our ancestors wanted freedoms they didn't have elsewhere. Yes, we were willing to fight for them and we say we still are. But having as much power as we do comes with an inherent responsibility to use that power correctly and wisely. Going to places we have no business being and bombing them into the stone age is not a responsible use of power. Don't get me wrong...I know Iraq was generally hostile towards us, but they in no way posed a direct threat to us. Indirect, perhaps, but so do Lybia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, the Palestinian population, etc. etc. etc. I suppose you could drop me off in the middle of Iraq...but I'd drop my shit and walk away. Why? Because I don't feel that any of those people are threatening any of our freedoms. Without that threat I don't see justification in killing them. They're shooting at us because WE came into THEIR backyards and started shit. You know we'd do the same...and then bomb the shit out of them...if the roles were reversed. Now we're the ones trying to change another people's way of life. What do you think would happen if someone tried to do that here? We'd fight back, of course. I'm not trying to insult the military as a whole, but I think the decision makers have massively fucked up. There are real legitimate threats to us that are much more pressing than what a 3rd world country halfway around the globe is doing right now.

V8...I don't dispute for a minute that they had WMDs in the past...just look at "gulf war syndrome" and the incidents you mentioned with the Kurds. But we weren't going in after the weapons then...we went after them now and got boned. Of course protesters don't do anything...they're a bunch of whiney little hippie pussies with too much spare time. That being said, violence is not always the way to gain or protect. I don't think anyone really wants a war...even the troops over in Iraq. I'm sure they'd be much happier at home with their families. You just have to weigh the importance of these actions against what can stand to be accomplished because of them. In this instance, I don't see us being any better off for having gone there. And the knowledge of what goes on in Iraq day to day is not knowledge that I want. If I did, I'd go sign up at my local recruiting center or become a journalist.

[V8killimports]

But just so we are straight... people have been over there since the first gulf war.. All of us want to get this over with and not return to the desert.. If we leave now, we will be there for the next 30 years. It's too bad people don't have the common sense of a paperclip to realize that.

[GT40FIED]

Well how long are we planning to stay after we'll supposedly be handing over power over the summer? I mean...our prescence there after handing power over to the Iraqis to govern themselves is redundant and pretty insulting.

[IALuder]

i think well be there far after june 30th. well be there till mid summer 05 imo.

[V8killimports]

There will be perm air bases there indefinatley

[Kool-Aid]

There already making this placve a permanent Air Base here...

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by V8killimports
But just so we are straight... people have been over there since the first gulf war.. All of us want to get this over with and not return to the desert.. If we leave now, we will be there for the next 30 years. It's too bad people don't have the common sense of a paperclip to realize that.

I wouldn't recomend pulling out of iraq under any circumstance at this point...

Now that Cowboy george has started it we HAVE to finish it...

And as far as the WMD arguement...

What are you F'ing kidding... when did Saddam bomb the kurds... IN THE 80'S...

More importantly HOW did he do it... Oh that's right... with OUR support... bush's daddy and rumsfield are basically personally responsible for ALL of those killings...

As for the Gulf War Syndrome stuff... Yeah I'm well aware... one of my brother's BEST friends (who lived with my family for a while)from highschool died VERY mysteriously about 4 years after he got out of Iraq... he was doing demolition of un-inspected weapon storage facilities...

Bush Jr. was looking for this war before he got ellected... I'm sorry but whatever links you provided about Saddam's envolvement in terrorism don't give me ANY regret having said pakistan Iran or Saudi Arabia are MUCH MUCH larger parts of the problem than Iraq ever was or would've been.

I'm all about fulfilling our commitments... When we pulled out abruptly during the first gulf war I FREAKED OUT... and I was protesting the begining of the war...

Bush SR. PUSSED out like a little girl when too many negative stories started coming out about the "highway of death"...

I have nothing but respect for those who serve... and feel they should be supported in a MUCH more sincere manner then they EVER are... but that doesn't make me have to agree with their end goals...

NO ONE is always right... unless you're in the military... then your commander is ALWAYS right... regardless of how retarded his decisions are... That's not my cup of tea.

I'll do whatever it takes if I think it's neccisary... but I'm not going to support the invasion of a country because it's leader antagonized us... they did NOTHING to us ... whether they tried and failed or not. Forget all the innocent Iraqi's killed injured or affected by the invasion... Saddam didn't really even do anything other than F with us... We have NO proof of ANYTHING that would warrant the invasion of a country...

Not even REMOTELY the amount of cause the clinton admin. had in LOTS of it's military actions which were condemned as "nation building" by republicans and bush himself...

But NOW... he's all about america's "responsibility to bestow freedom" on people who never asked for it...

Now having said that I am WELL WELL aware of how many Iraqi's are DESPERATE to get out from under the thumb of Saddam...

But when they wanted to do it themselves (first gulf war) we ENCOURAGED iraqi's to rise up against Saddam.. but when the negative press got to be too much for Daddy bush he pulled out and left ALL of those people to Saddams whim...

Which I guess worked out for us in the end because we can now draw attention from the COMPLETE AND UTTER LACK of WMD, by pointing out all the mass graves we helped fill up...

[Kool-Aid]

Are you military as well?

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by Kool-Aid
Are you military as well?

If you're talking to me... it's already been covered...

I'm an un-appreciative cookie eater apparently...

Who's not entitled to his opinions... So I guess all that fighting for my freedoms everyone who's ever enlisted has done didn't do any good.

Originally posted by V8killimports
Are you in the military?

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
Nope... not in the military...

I couldn't ever be a part of a killing machine I didn't have any say in what/when we killed...

I'd be an insubordenant soldier... so I wouldn't ever be one.

Originally posted by V8killimports
Ok then.. please don't talk like you fight for anything, because you don't. Please sit at home and enjoy your cookies and milk.

[V8killimports]

Do some research.. he gassed the kurds after the first gulf war when they tried to uprise against saddam. It was actually his son that was in charge of crushing the kurdish uprising to be accurate.

[V8killimports]

Oh.. and as for the freedom that Iraqis never asked for.. how do you know that????? I guarantee you that you base that off of the attacks by BAATH party members still loyal to saddam and their lavish lifestyle they USE TO live. Unless you have personally talked to iraqies and asked them, then you don't have a damn clue. Thank you.

[GT40FIED]

I gotta say I'm with nonuv on this...for the most part. We should've learned by now that whenever we arm a country, especially in the middle east, they tend to turn on us and then we paint them as the bad guy. We gave money to the Afghanis to get rid of the Soviets, they used the same weapons against us when we went in this time around. We armed Iraq to fight the Iranians and then secretly armed the Iranians to fight the Iraqis...now both countries are "threats" to us according to our leaders. Then there's Israel. We'll help them beat the Palestinians into submission because, let's face it, there's a ton more jewish voters than muslim. No one in that conflict is right...they're both wrong. We just happen to fund one and not the other.

Does it really matter whe he gassed the Kurds? He didn't pose a threat to US with those weapons. It's the job of each individual country to defend themselves. You also have to ask yourself if the Kurds would've risen up if they had thought we'd abruptly pull out like that? Sure, we didn't make any promises but we fell sorely short of our supposed commitment to the cause of the Gulf conflict (sorry...I just can't bring myself to call it a "war").

As for whether or not Iraqis asked for the "freedom" they may get from our being there (which still remains to be seen), it doesn't matter if they did ask or not. If they really wanted freedom it's THEIR job to fight for it, not mine or yours. Hell...in it's infancy America took on the largest empire in the world to gain their freedom. So either we stepped in where we didn't belong or the Iraqis didn't want said freedom as bad as many would have us think. As the saying goes, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I think the issues that people try to make out of this situation are in large part irrelevent. Bottom line is that it's the status quo's responsibility to revolt against a government they feel is corrupt or flat out just not working. That job doesn't fall on a country half way across the world. Unless, of course, said country has a vendetta from a previous altercation which was left unresolved. Then, apparently, it's perfectly fine to "liberate" people who are perfectly capable of liberating themselves. It's a question of legitimacy...are we justified in being there doing their jobs for them. In my mind, the answer is no.

[AzCivic]

I just want cheap gas. where the hell is it?

[02_Si]

Originally posted by GeneralDzur
Hey man, where you at AIT at? I did 57 pushups (oh well), 82 situps, and ran the run in 12:47. By "guard duty" you mean Hall Guard or Fire Guard, right? I hated AIT at FT Gordon...I was there for freaking 19 weeks. But 31Romeo - I know all about that MOS. I'm a 74Bravo, which is a Information Systems Analyst Operator (basically a computer geek that sets up Cisco networks)

Good luck while you're there though. Send us some pics...oh yeah...*if* you're allowed to have camera's.

- Dzur

So you were here for 19 weeks huh? That's crazy. My MOS is only 9 weeks. On my last PT test I ended up doing 80 situps, 74 pushups, and ran the 2 miles in 13:58. I don't think it's too bad here. We have a lot of freedom. What battalion were you in? I am in Delta 447th Signal BN. Right now we just got done learning how to load COMSEC into the equipment and how to get our power up and running. This week we are going to start troubleshooting the equipment. We took our first test on friday. It was too easy. I got a 98% because I didn't put the Comm Modem into "operate"... I left it in "equipment side loop back" when I was setting up the KY-57. But other than that, it was all gravy. Right now I am PV2- Private Second Class(E-2). I am hoping to be promoted to PFC by the time I leave here but I don't think that is going to happen. We will see though. So yeah, hit me up and let me know what Battalion you were in. Peace.

[black95gs-t]

Originally posted by SFKing
just cuase you fighting with daviso in the not a chance thread doesnt mean you got to bring your angre here and direct it at me when you didnt read the post right below yours.
I wasn't fighting with Daviso. I was just curious. What you were describing didn't seem quite right is all. Don't be so quick to jump on your guns. How long have you been in and what unit are you in?

[IALuder]

i wasnt reffering to you about fighting, that was reffered to V8.
i have been in the service for a almost a 1. i went to boot last june. 3rd Ordnace Battalion (EOD).

[GT40FIED]

Here ya go folks...your fearless leader.

http://www.musicforamerica.org/misc/media_files/bushjoke.mov

[Rob]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Here ya go folks...your fearless leader.

http://www.musicforamerica.org/misc/media_files/bushjoke.mov
no workie workie....:no:

[GT40FIED]

You need Quicktime to watch it...it works fine for me.

[Rob]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
You need Quicktime to watch it...it works fine for me.
I have Quicktime but it tells me that a required compressor cannot be found.....I dunno...:dunce:

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
I gotta say I'm with nonuv on this...for the most part. We should've learned by now that whenever we arm a country, especially in the middle east, they tend to turn on us and then we paint them as the bad guy. We gave money to the Afghanis to get rid of the Soviets, they used the same weapons against us when we went in this time around. We armed Iraq to fight the Iranians and then secretly armed the Iranians to fight the Iraqis...now both countries are "threats" to us according to our leaders. Then there's Israel. We'll help them beat the Palestinians into submission because, let's face it, there's a ton more jewish voters than muslim. No one in that conflict is right...they're both wrong. We just happen to fund one and not the other.

Does it really matter whe he gassed the Kurds? He didn't pose a threat to US with those weapons. It's the job of each individual country to defend themselves. You also have to ask yourself if the Kurds would've risen up if they had thought we'd abruptly pull out like that? Sure, we didn't make any promises but we fell sorely short of our supposed commitment to the cause of the Gulf conflict (sorry...I just can't bring myself to call it a "war").

As for whether or not Iraqis asked for the "freedom" they may get from our being there (which still remains to be seen), it doesn't matter if they did ask or not. If they really wanted freedom it's THEIR job to fight for it, not mine or yours. Hell...in it's infancy America took on the largest empire in the world to gain their freedom. So either we stepped in where we didn't belong or the Iraqis didn't want said freedom as bad as many would have us think. As the saying goes, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I think the issues that people try to make out of this situation are in large part irrelevent. Bottom line is that it's the status quo's responsibility to revolt against a government they feel is corrupt or flat out just not working. That job doesn't fall on a country half way across the world. Unless, of course, said country has a vendetta from a previous altercation which was left unresolved. Then, apparently, it's perfectly fine to "liberate" people who are perfectly capable of liberating themselves. It's a question of legitimacy...are we justified in being there doing their jobs for them. In my mind, the answer is no.

whining on the internet isnt going to change anything, nor is it going to change anyones opinions.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Here ya go folks...your fearless leader.

http://www.musicforamerica.org/misc/media_files/bushjoke.mov

vote GT40 for pres.. his motto, dont do shit until the bombs are droppin on your doorstep.

[GT40FIED]

Wow...you never cease to amaze me by missing my point entirely AZ. I'm not whining...merely stating my opinion. I don't think we've ever had a justified reason for invading Iraq or any other country for that matter. If the citizens of a given country want change, they can effect it. It's not our job to do so. As for "dont do shit until the bombs are droppin on your doorstep", you're soooooo far off from the message of that video. I swear, sometimes you display the kind of intelligence that makes me wonder if you know the difference between a sneeze and a wet fart. In that video clip, not long after 5 U.S. troops were killed in Iraq, our "president" (and I use that word lightly) makes light of not finding any of the supposed WMDs that he was so damned sure were there. It's a funny thing...read HERE (http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/saddam/) and you'll see that before 9/11 people refuted claims that Iraq had such weapons. But of course afterwards we were so damned sure they had them. Go figure. I'm not about waiting until bombs are "falling on your doorstep" as you so misguidedly put it. But I'd like to see some credible intelligence that displays that an enemy is a clear danger to US before we go in and bomb the shit out of them. North Korea is perhaps the ONLY country in the world that poses a significant direct threat to us and we've taken such threats with a grain of salt. I don't see Saddam (even if he were still in power) launching any sort of weapon that has the capabilities to target the U.S. directly. Therefore he MUST pose the greatest threat of all. Oh...and he's got oil. That too. If you don't feel at least a little bit lied to by the current administration then you're a fucking dolt. They lied so you would feel a need to attack a country that has absolutely no capabilities of harming us directly. Once again, as for harming us indirectly, that threat is not deminished by our presence there, only magnified. I know, I know....it's in your blood to disagree with everything I say, but trite remarks belittle us all.

[Kool-Aid]

So you think that society has been lied to about our reasoning for being over here?

[GT40FIED]

In large part, yes. We tried to sell this same package to the rest of the world and for the most part they laughed at us. Granted, the weapons weren't the only reason the prez had for going in, but it was the biggest one. No weapons equals no threat which equals zero justification. If these weapons were such a big threat why weren't we in there in the 80's when we KNEW he had them and was using them or after the gulf conflict when we KNEW he was using them. All we had this time were some grainy B&W photos from space that show what was definitely possibly a problem. So yeah, I think in large part we've all been lied to, whether we believed the lie or not.

[thermal]

I'm done with this thread.........

[Rob]

Originally posted by thermalfi'd16
I'm done with this thread.........
Yup.......

[GT40FIED]

Indeed...same here.

[Kool-Aid]

I know that I've got two more years left and I am considering getting out....going back to school and be my own boss...

[black95gs-t]

Originally posted by SFKing
i wasnt reffering to you about fighting, that was reffered to V8.
i have been in the service for a almost a 1. i went to boot last june. 3rd Ordnace Battalion (EOD). You do realize that EOD Tech is a B billet right?