Wow....we're either arrogant or stupid

[GT40FIED]

Ok...I just saw the new plans for the building to be built on the site where the WTC used to stand and I must say I'm a bit taken aback by our lack of basic intelligence. So we had two of the world's taller buildings on that site a little over 2 years ago right? Then they get totally trashed and what's our plan? Put an even BIGGER bulding on the same site. It's so genius it's almost compltetly moronic. The thing is planned to be over 1700ft tall (making it the biggest building in the world). When the f@ck will we learn our lesson? I'm all for the "we can't let them win" bullshit people throw around these days, but this is just plane stupidity. It's like making a huge neon sign that says "target here" and mocks people who wish us harm. I'm always ammused when some terrorist asshole says from some dirt hole in the ground that they are holy so they will triumph, but do we really need to handpick their targets for them? So are we just arrogant or are we (as I believe) just a bunch of uber ethnocentric gotards?

[thermal]

Dude.... you didnt know? They are putting an invisible shield or force field..... LOL.... I know what you mean.

[KwikR6]

I hear ya!
Stupid.

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Yeah, no kidding. I don't know why they feel the need to do this. Also, its just plain ugly.

[vtracer20]

It's kinda of a showing of our part really, if we put something bigger in the same spot we pretty much tell the terrorist that were not afriad of their tactics.....plus the WTC was poorly built that's why they fell

[mylittlecivic]

those guys aren't going to go for the same place twice

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by vtracer20
It's kinda of a showing of our part really, if we put something bigger in the same spot we pretty much tell the terrorist that were not afriad of their tactics.....plus the WTC was poorly built that's why they fell

I'm not sure I was afraid to begin with. That's the problem of such a horrible attack on such a large scale...there's really little time to be afraid while you're still trying to comprehend. Besides...the fact that you can't go anywhere without hearing about heightened security, incomprehensible vague threats, and raised alert warnings says that there are many out there are still frightened. Mylittlecivic may be right...it'd be a little obvious to hit the same spot twice but why even give them a chance? Why not do what they did in OKC? Build a memorial on the site. As long as there are extravagent and unneccessary buildings around this problem will exist. These people can barley build stuff out of sticks and mud and here we are replacing two of the taller buildnings in the world with THE tallest building in the world. No wonder they hate us (I'm not sure I'm too pleased with us, either at the moment). As for their construction...they were actually built quite well. They were actually built to withstand an impact from the commercial jets of the time but we've built bigger since then and not many contractors figure the temperature of burning jet fuel on their support beams into their plans. I just think it's an idiotic, moronic, and disrespectful idea. Damn near 3000 people died there and now we should build a capitalistic marketplace over it? :nono:

[juvenile]

Shows the truer intentions of the government sometimes...$$$.

[MAXed Out]

I have nothing against it but not really agreeing with what the hell they are doing either. But they won't get trashed again.

[blind34_1]

"...but this is just plane stupidity."

kind of a funny unintentional play on words...

[ChrisCantSkate]

its the american way

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by blind34_1
"...but this is just plane stupidity."

kind of a funny unintentional play on words...

Well...not wholely unintentional. ;)

[vtracer20]

our country is too generous i think....we let in all these people and then once something huge happens where like "oh no, dont let their kind in", i'm foreign and i'm kinda pissed at the way americans are reacted to this terrorist act...thousands of people die all over the damn world and u NEVER see that shit rolling on news channels, i'm actually glad that this happened because it shows how unprotected this damn country is, and with the stupid Green, red yellow things on tv saying how a terrorist attack might happen is just plain stupid. Stop spending money on killing more ****ing people somewhere else and start protecting those that live in your own country. This really pisses mee off, i'm sorry if i offended some by saying that i'm glad for the attacks of 9/11, but people need to open their eyes and see that this shit happens every day somewhere else on the world. my .02

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by vtracer20
our country is too generous i think....we let in all these people and then once something huge happens where like "oh no, dont let their kind in", i'm foreign and i'm kinda pissed at the way americans are reacted to this terrorist act...thousands of people die all over the damn world and u NEVER see that shit rolling on news channels, i'm actually glad that this happened because it shows how unprotected this damn country is, and with the stupid Green, red yellow things on tv saying how a terrorist attack might happen is just plain stupid. Stop spending money on killing more ****ing people somewhere else and start protecting those that live in your own country. This really pisses mee off, i'm sorry if i offended some by saying that i'm glad for the attacks of 9/11, but people need to open their eyes and see that this shit happens every day somewhere else on the world. my .02

*falls out of chair**

wow someone sees that america thinks we own the ****ing world and the slightest inconvenience to us means ww3. if we counted our losses, and reconstructed our country with the help of the world, they would have helped us track down those responsible for what heppened. we had the biggest world support we've ever had, and what did we do? attack attack attack and turn the tables 100% around with most of the world not agreeing with our ways of doing things. it sickens me when people think bush did the right thing going against the UN and ruining our economy(it looked.... alright, but ask the people who lost their jobs and homes). i dont wana go on, cause im going to get sidetracked

[V8killimports]

Maybe we should go crawl under a rock and pray nobody ever hurts us again. I for one and the type of person who will stand the #uck back up if knocked down.. but each person is different I guess.. some won't.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Maybe we should go crawl under a rock and pray nobody ever hurts us again. I for one and the type of person who will stand the #uck back up if knocked down.. but each person is different I guess.. some won't.

i am 100% for defending ourselves, but not at the cost of everything that makes our country what it is.

[GT40FIED]

I see where you all are coming from. I can't say I'm glad it happened...I won't go that far. I'll just say it's pitiful that it took such a huge death toll for us to wake the f@ck up and join the rest of the world. After those attacks people (mostly media) harolded this as a "new age" or something of the like. No...it's the same old age...we've just now joined the party. We're hsitting bricks because we've started to think maybe we're not top of the food chain. And V8...I hear what you're saying, but I can't say I wholely agree. We had every right to go into Afghanistan and track those f@ckers down. But then it was Iraq. Then Syria...then North Korea...then Iran...maybe Luxemborg next? We took out the Taliban and should've stopped there. As for Iraq...am I happy for the country's people that Saddam's out? Sure. Do I think we needed a full fledged war and hundreds of US casualties to do it? No. We could have just assassinated him like the did with Admiral Yamimoto in WWII...kind of on the sly with no official presidential decree (since it's against international law to do so). I'm entirely with Chris as far as our president is concerned though. I think he's taken just about every opportunity to f@ck up and run with it. When you need the most help is not when you start alienating others.

[vtracer20]

i just think that 9/11 shouldn't ever happended....yes it sucks that IT DID but what u gonna do. There were so many things that weren't taken seriously by our own government and i believe that's why it really did happen...and yes it does suck for some soo tragic to happen for actual chnage to happen, if it were up to me i woudl make the US just like isrial, there hasn't been a highjacking in like years because on ever corner there are armed soldiers. That's how it used to be in poland in the old days when i was younger, people were too afraid to pull anything stupid.

[ChrisCantSkate]

the really sad part is, he or someone in his administration has benifited enormously from every action he's taken. the rich get richer the poor get poorer

[V8killimports]

Originally posted by vtracer20
i just think that 9/11 shouldn't ever happended....yes it sucks that IT DID but what u gonna do. There were so many things that weren't taken seriously by our own government and i believe that's why it really did happen...and yes it does suck for some soo tragic to happen for actual chnage to happen, if it were up to me i woudl make the US just like isrial, there hasn't been a highjacking in like years because on ever corner there are armed soldiers. That's how it used to be in poland in the old days when i was younger, people were too afraid to pull anything stupid.

What!?! Israel has suicide bombings almost weekly if not more often now..

And if Luxemburg threatens the security of the U.S. then yes, they should be next. Kill or be killed in this world.. Sad, but that's the way it works. Pick your team.

[ChrisCantSkate]

v8... its hard to post a reply to your response cause you leave things as a black and white issue. there are hundreds of ways to deal with a potentially hostile nation, and rape pillage then rebuild is not going to leave them happy. we need to work harder at solving problems instead of creating new ones.

think about it... we may have neutralized iraq as a country, but fast forward10-15 years... all it takes is one child from iraq who lost a mother/father/loved one because of our "accidental" civilian killings to commit one act of terror that could kill hundreds or thousands of people because he's pissed about what our president in 2003 did. extreme? no its why so many people hate us. i know some japanise still hate america because of what we did in ww2.

hell... the french still hold a grudge against us for screwing them out of land in the new world and us breaking our treaty with them because we didnt wana goto war with england when the treaty clearly stated that when they basically won the revoultionary war for us.

our president has created a temporary soultion for the issue thats most popular in the media, i dont feel any safer now that sadam is out of power. im actually more worried now about radical iraqi's commiting acts of terror on us than before.

look at the nazi's. they were defeated, their leader was killed, their generals faced war trials, they were completly destroyed.... however there are still tons of nazi's who follow a dead leader and still commit hate crimes daily.

unless we start acting like a civilized nation... the most advanced nation in the world, and do things right, such as not bombing populated citys full of innocent civilians to get one man that could have just as effectivly been taken out by a special ops team, or hell... even making our commander and chief follow our own rules(heaven forbid) we are always going to overstep our bounderies of what will make this counrty the best it can be. we slapped the UN in the face by going directly against what they said, then not even finding what we said we WOULD find. all we've managed to do was take sadam out of power. these WMD that bush swore exsited better be found. im just as much of a sadam hater as the next guy, but as president of the united states you cannot go on a full blown manhunt because you claim he's got weapons of mass destruction that the UN didnt find, and didnt think there was evidence of them being present. they had the same information we did, they just didnt have the emotion of loosing 3000 people to a completly different group of people, and a nation of people wanting someone to pay for it. so they didnt irrationally act against what they swore to uphold.

[V8killimports]

Not even gonna respond.. please don't tell me WMD didn't exist when it's a known fact he has used them on his own people in the past.

[ricerX]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
As for Iraq...am I happy for the country's people that Saddam's out? Sure. Do I think we needed a full fledged war and hundreds of US casualties to do it? No. We could have just assassinated him like the did with Admiral Yamimoto in WWII...kind of on the sly with no official presidential decree (since it's against international law to do so).

I'll second that. Take one shot and let the country restructure itself...instead we have to resurface the potholes that we put in the desert and set up a new government.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by V8killimports
Not even gonna respond.. please don't tell me WMD didn't exist when it's a known fact he has used them on his own people in the past.

It's a funny thing, the law. Knowing and proving are two different things. Do I know O.J was guilty? Of course. Can I prove it it? Nope. The funny thing is that we basically told the world to f@ck off...we've got proof that they've got weapons and we'll find them. Everyone else said to wait for the inspectors to do their thing. We said f@ck off...we're doing our own thing. Then when it was go time and everyone started asking for proof of these weapons we said "give us more time".

I understand where you're coming from V8...your a member of the armed forces and I by no means mean to throw your standing up for our country back into your face, but it's time to take a logical approach to this. I used Luxemborg as a joke...the middle east is a very different animal altogether. It's probably got more religious zealots than any area in the world (perhaps save our own country) and I don't think taking drastic military action there is the best way to deal with every solution. Look at Afghanistan. We sent a small number of troops that were well trained and used intelligence to get the job done quick and easy with a very minimal amount of "collateral damage" (that's the most callous term I've ever heard to refer to dead civilians. Saying sorry doesn't bring them back to life). Why couldn't we do that in Iraq? I believe it was basically a test to see who had the bigger dick. That and a major media event. Even a service man has to admit that our government is totally fuct as it stands right now. Our president is willing to send you or other men and women like you into harms way and for what? A good sound bite? The percieved impression that we're doing away with "evil doers"? For f@ck's sake man...we're even starting to point a finger at Cuba. Apparently our president was out snorting blow on the day they talked about how Cuba overthrew Batista to install Castro as El Presidente in his history class. Hell...I've sat and talked to a former member of the 24th of July movement (a major force in Havana during the Guevara/Castro led revolution against Batista) and he told me how much better it was under Castro for the Cuban people. If they want him out, let them throw him out. Bottom line is that we're going after these countries for political rather than factual security reasons. I also don't trust those who hide their political alliances and grant favors that aren't theirs to grant (i.e. Haliburton (sp?) getting contracts to feed the troops, supply fuels, etc when they overcharged and under-delivered just because Cheney's ***** ass used to be their CEO). It's easy to take a hawkish stance but some of it just doesn't add up when you look at how bad we've f@cked up in many of these cases.

[V8killimports]

I have also talked to Castro's right hand man during the revolution.. he defected to the U.S. and came to my college to speak.. wonder why he defected?? Interesting. Iraq and Afghanistan are 2 TOTALLY different wars. We are setting up a government in Afghanistan, as we are doing in Iraq. Iraq was more structured built by a man that all Iraqis feared. Even after the war they feared that Saddam could come back to power. As or going to war.. you realize we have been over there for over a decade?? You realize there have been skimishes you never hear about that have gone on that long? I bet you 99% of the military will say they are glad for this because there is now a light at the end of the tunnel.. someday we will be able to leave for the most part.. aside for people stationed remote at Baghdad AB..

[ChrisCantSkate]

v8... once again, your making it look like we wanted nohting to do with iraq or any country that posed a threat. there is proof he used WMD on his people, but you have to remeber what the president swore to his people and the world. that we would find them, and that was why he went against the UN and against the normal presidental prosedure for calling the troops out for an extented period of time.

you ever seen boondock saints? i kinda see this the same way. sure your getting the murders, rapists, drug dealers, etc off the street, but killing them all without proper authority and against the higher power. your doing good, but just the wrong way. dont post for the 3rd or 4th time that i didnt want sadam to be left alone and us hide under a rock, im saying that in order for us to remain the nation we are, we must think about how we trample 3rd world counties and realize thats not the answer.

oh and btw, those WMD he built in the late 80's early 90's.... those were in lab we built him, with technology we gave him.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by V8killimports
I have also talked to Castro's right hand man during the revolution.. he defected to the U.S. and came to my college to speak.. wonder why he defected??

Actually that would be impossible. Castro's right hand man during the revolution was Ernesto "Che" Guevara who died in Bolivia (supposedly) in the late 1960's while trying to help another revolution there. The reason most of Castro's accomplices defected was that Castro lied to them. When the fighting started in the Sierra Maestra they went by a motto that closely resembles what the Zapatistas use today (the Zapatista motto is "everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves"). No member of the revolutionary force was supposed to take any position power but when it was all over Castro did. That's the only reason they turned on him, but for the most part Cubans are happy to live there. It's none of our business to tell them how to run their country nor any other country that isn't denying it's citizens basic human rights. Now...we hate France (I don't remember liking them to begin with) but should we go in there, throw our weight around and tell them how to do shit just because their beliefs don't jive with ours? Part of me wants to say yes just because I've never been a big fan of the french, but it's just plain wrong. Being the biggest power and force in the world comes with an equal amount of responsibilities to use that power and force in a correct manner. So far in this instance we've failed to do so.

And Chris....Boondock Saints owns you in ways you can't possibly imagine. I like the comparison, too. But right or wrong you can't tell me you haven't wanted to do exactly what the two brothers in that movie did.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
And Chris....Boondock Saints owns you in ways you can't possibly imagine. I like the comparison, too. But right or wrong you can't tell me you haven't wanted to do exactly what the two brothers in that movie did.

haha yeah... i amlost didnt wana make that comparison cause that movie is just amazing