What would this be?

[VR4_Craver]

How about a D16 with a compresion ratio of 12:1 and a reprogrammed ECU....i raced a hatch like that but he had to been lying the way he was hauling...

[Shaved &/or Laid]

D16s are gay.

*hides from Az*

[pdiggitydogg]

thats damn crazy compression...
Ive heard that can be obtained w/ zc pistons...but Ive never seen actual results

[ebpda9]

wow, that's pretty high of a compression.

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
D16s are gay.

*hides from Az*

No 1.6 liter engines are gay...

at least most people with a D never payed EXTRA for it.

Oh and I know I've pointed this out before but the world's fastest honda was a D15 block... So I think you kinda have your head up your ass on that one...


A 12:1 D would put out WAY more power than a b16 swapped in would... even with some mods... Not to mention ALL of it's power wouldn't be hidden up top past vtec crossover... it'd have a MUCH more respectable power curve than the torqueless wonder.

Oh and it'd cost you about a tenth as much as a swap...

But yeah you're right D16's are gay.

[Shaved &/or Laid]

dude you cant say taht i was HIDING see above.

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
A 12:1 D would put out WAY more power than a b16 swapped in would... even with some mods... Not to mention ALL of it's power wouldn't be hidden up top past vtec crossover... it'd have a MUCH more respectable power curve than the torqueless wonder.

you cant knock the torqueless wonder.

Having a fast honda is all about weight. The more crap you take out of your honda the faster it will go.

Saying a 1.6 liter b16 is gay aint right - i can beat GSR's w/the same mods as i have, does that mean they are gay? does that mean my 1.6 is any better than their 1.8? No, not at all. The b16 just trades a little low rpm torque for a little more high rpm power (im talkin jdm b16's, since they put out the same final power as a us b18c1).

Honestly, im sick of you people saying that having a b16 is a dumb idea - weather youve got a b16 or a b18, the race is gonna be a driver's race. From reading some of your posts, its obvious you have never raced against another Bseries honda while driving a Bseries honda, so please dont try and talk like a 1.8 is SSSSOOO much better than the 1.6.

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by cashizslick
you cant knock the torqueless wonder.

Having a fast honda is all about weight. The more crap you take out of your honda the faster it will go.

Saying a 1.6 liter b16 is gay aint right - i can beat GSR's w/the same mods as i have, does that mean they are gay? does that mean my 1.6 is any better than their 1.8? No, not at all. The b16 just trades a little low rpm torque for a little more high rpm power (im talkin jdm b16's, since they put out the same final power as a us b18c1).

Honestly, im sick of you people saying that having a b16 is a dumb idea - weather youve got a b16 or a b18, the race is gonna be a driver's race. From reading some of your posts, its obvious you have never raced against another Bseries honda while driving a Bseries honda, so please dont try and talk like a 1.8 is SSSSOOO much better than the 1.6.

ok that entire post is poointless considereing that we are talking about the D16 not the B16..... but yea anyway that guy said 12:1 compression and hondata ecu....thats it....plus the no interior, 1/8 tank f gas......no 15 or passanger...but anyway he beat me:paranoid:

[nonovurbizniz]

Before reading... please read my sig... I'm just a smart-ass... I'm not trying to put either of you or your motors down...

Originally posted by cashizslick
you cant knock the torqueless wonder.

Watch me.


Having a fast honda is all about weight. The more crap you take out of your honda the faster it will go.

That's possibly the stupidest comment I've ever heard... 100lbs increases your QUARTER MILE time by 1 TENTH of a second...
Here's a GREAT performance article along the lines of your thinking...

http://crazyjim.ramelot.com/14seconds.htm


Saying a 1.6 liter b16 is gay aint right - i can beat GSR's w/the same mods as i have, does that mean they are gay? does that mean my 1.6 is any better than their 1.8? No, not at all. The b16 just trades a little low rpm torque for a little more high rpm power (im talkin jdm b16's, since they put out the same final power as a us b18c1).

A 1.6 is a 1.6... sure head/cam design and compression play a part... but displacement is what's going to get you power... short of that it had better have a hair dryer on it...

If you can beat a car with MORE power than you... yes it makes you gay... I've beaten BMW's before... BECAUSE THE DRIVER SUCKED. If you mean you can beat GSR integra's... I doubt it... and on top of that... that's not exactly shooting for the stars.

and as I've stated your "final power" equality doesn't mean SH!t... they have a STRONG power band.. you don't... if your car had a constantly variable tranny that kept you at peak maybe it would matter what your peak power was... till then the torque curve will ALWAYS win given the same peak hp.


Honestly, im sick of you people saying that having a b16 is a dumb idea - weather youve got a b16 or a b18, the race is gonna be a driver's race. From reading some of your posts, its obvious you have never raced against another Bseries honda while driving a Bseries honda, so please dont try and talk like a 1.8 is SSSSOOO much better than the 1.6.

How is it going to be a "driver's race"... Unless the guy with more power is a SH!TTY driver... he's going to win.

I never said ANYTHING about a 1.8 being a great idea either... but it's certainly a better launching pad then a 1.6... every last DROP of displacement you can get will help in the long run..

As far as
"its obvious you have never raced against another Bseries honda while driving a Bseries honda, so please dont try and talk like a 1.8 is SSSSOOO much better than the 1.6. "

Ok I was wrong... The weight thing is no longer the dumbest thing I've ever heard...

Being in a race with 2 bseries honda's would affect my ability to understand PHYSICS how?

I never said a single word about a 1.8... what I said is swapping and KEEPING the same displacement is RETARDED... whether you swap a b16 that's been sleeved over or stroked... or buying a 1.8 to start with... Either way It's still WAY low displacement... 1.8 is the BARE MINIMUM you need to get even decent performance w/o a turbo... 2.0 or higher is what you should be shooting for...


Now having said all that...

I couldn't care less if you guys got swaps... if YOU are happy with them then great... but don't come on here with TOTALLY inaccurate B.S. yammering on constantly to everyone how they should get a jdm b16... or how the D's suck... that's just BAD BAD BAD advise... you're exited because you just did (had) something MAJOR done to your car... that's great and all... but don't go telling people that D16's are "gay"...

any 1.6 motor is a joke... it's TINY... like I said even a 1.8 is too small imo... If it's not turbo then the extra cam can suck my nut... you could make a Dseries MUCH MUCH faster NA or boost than a b16 swap for LESS MONEY...

Of course that would take work... which is "gay" apparently.

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
Before reading... please read my sig... I'm just a smart-ass... I'm not trying to put either of you or your motors down...



Now having said all that...

I couldn't care less if you guys got swaps... if YOU are happy with them then great... but don't come on here with TOTALLY inaccurate B.S. yammering on constantly to everyone how they should get a jdm b16... or how the D's suck... that's just BAD BAD BAD advise... you're exited because you just did (had) something MAJOR done to your car... that's great and all... but don't go telling people that D16's are "gay"...

any 1.6 motor is a joke... it's TINY... like I said even a 1.8 is too small imo... If it's not turbo then the extra cam can suck my nut... you could make a Dseries MUCH MUCH faster NA or boost than a b16 swap for LESS MONEY...



Of course that would take work... which is "gay" apparently. :thumbsup: :yikes: :bomb: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

sorry for setting him off...... LOL j/k

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
[I couldn't care less if you guys got swaps... if YOU are happy with them then great... but don't come on here with TOTALLY inaccurate B.S. yammering on constantly to everyone how they should get a jdm b16... or how the D's suck... that's just BAD BAD BAD advise... you're exited because you just did (had) something MAJOR done to your car... that's great and all... but don't go telling people that D16's are "gay"...

any 1.6 motor is a joke... it's TINY... like I said even a 1.8 is too small imo... If it's not turbo then the extra cam can suck my nut... you could make a Dseries MUCH MUCH faster NA or boost than a b16 swap for LESS MONEY...


Dont tell me about acurate bs - you are all flippin out because of 2 tenths of a liter which really isnt any big deal - obviously (id know from experience).

Yes, i will agree that a 4cyl is slow and still will be even if it has a turbo.

As far as you talkin about how much better having a 1.8 is than a 1.6 - you dont know what you are talking about. The extra torque just gives a slightly better launching pad, maybe 1/2 a carlenght off the line.

As for what i said about racing, i have been to the races and raced many a hybrid civic, B16/B18 - its all the same and their is barely a difference in how the cars perform so dont get all hyped up over 2tenths of a liter.

and BTW - I never said anything to discourage somebody building a D.

[pdiggitydogg]

wow yeah...we're not doing this again, are we?
bad enough I gotta deal w/ this topic in the civic section...I dont wanna read it here too

it is an endless problem d vs b...argue in your heads please

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
wow yeah...we're not doing this again, are we?
bad enough I gotta deal w/ this topic in the civic section...I dont wanna read it here too

it is an endless problem d vs b...argue in your heads please

dude, id love too, its just that people keep bringin it up and this has been a sore topic lately on HST.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
Before reading... please read my sig... I'm just a smart-ass... I'm not trying to put either of you or your motors down...



Now having said all that...

I couldn't care less if you guys got swaps... if YOU are happy with them then great... but don't come on here with TOTALLY inaccurate B.S. yammering on constantly to everyone how they should get a jdm b16... or how the D's suck... that's just BAD BAD BAD advise... you're exited because you just did (had) something MAJOR done to your car... that's great and all... but don't go telling people that D16's are "gay"...

any 1.6 motor is a joke... it's TINY... like I said even a 1.8 is too small imo... If it's not turbo then the extra cam can suck my nut... you could make a Dseries MUCH MUCH faster NA or boost than a b16 swap for LESS MONEY...

Of course that would take work... which is "gay" apparently.

Well said!

[Shaved &/or Laid]

hey guys lets not take a joke.

did i mention that i dont think my car is a lamborghini and it also looks like a piece of shit ?

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by cashizslick
Dont tell me about acurate bs - you are all flippin out because of 2 tenths of a liter which really isnt any big deal - obviously (id know from experience).

Don't post inaccurate B.S. then...

Ohh Ok you know from your vast wealth of experience and knowledge...

I hate to have to do this again but... here's the math... Like I said... Hp=Tq*rpm/5252...

your engine...118 lb/ft
GSR engine....128lb/ft
JDM ITR...........130lb/ft
The math:

RPM JDM B16b USDM b18c1 JDM ITR
1000 22.47 24.37 24.75
3000 67.40 73.12 74.25
5000 112.34 121.86 123.76
7000 157.27 170.60 173.27
7600 170.75 185.22 188.12
8000 179.74 N/A 198.01
8200 184.23 N/A

SO basically the .2 liters just gave him a CONSTANT advantage over you EVEN when your engine is way more "maxed out" from the factory...

A MUCH more accurate depiction of how "insignificant" .2 liters is would be to compare the CTR to the ITR... Hell I'm going back and doing it...

BWAHAHAHAHA... no those .2 liters don't mean squat... it's a driver's race.... RIGHHHHHT. at 5k the ITR ALREADY has 11hp on you... that's the difference between your car stock and i/h/e IF YOU'RE LUCKY... Do you think stock civic's have so much as a chance against ones with I/H/E???

Yes, i will agree that a 4cyl is slow and still will be even if it has a turbo.

As far as you talkin about how much better having a 1.8 is than a 1.6 - you dont know what you are talking about. The extra torque just gives a slightly better launching pad, maybe 1/2 a carlenght off the line.

See above jackass.

As for what i said about racing, i have been to the races and raced many a hybrid civic, B16/B18 - its all the same and their is barely a difference in how the cars perform so dont get all hyped up over 2tenths of a liter.


Do you like sounding stupid?... there's no performance difference between a b18c5 and a b16b? or a b16b and a b18b? Ok... you're a dumbass.... I'm not even talking to you anymore.

and BTW - I never said anything to discourage somebody building a D.

Ok good... I'm sure if you had it would've been taken VERY seriously by all.

[drdingo21]

BTW mike it was a d16.

You asked him if he swapped a b16 and he said no. Not to metion a b16 with that kind of compression would crush you (and me) even worse than it did.

And you didn't belive me:rolleyes: everyone here said the samething i did.....


no faith

[ebpda9]

geez ppl relax there. we all know b,d,h series from honda all suck. the best engine they ever made it's the f series, especially the f22a1's ;) :rolleyes:





i hope you got my sarcasm

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
geez ppl relax there. we all know b,d,h series from honda all suck. the best engine they ever made it's the f series, especially the f22a1's ;) :rolleyes:





i hope you got my sarcasm Good thing you reminded me how the accord engine is gods gift to earth :). jfwy, i honestly didn't even read what everyone posted. For 1 it was too early in the morning, and two i really didn't care. But mike didn't belive me and had to make a thread about it, so i thought i would give him a hard time. And your opnion about the accord doesn't count. Although i will hand it to you, you are loyal;)

[cashizslick]

Nonovurbuz - all of your statistical crap doent mean anything - there is no big performance difference between a B16a and B18c.

Say whatever you want about charts or physics, you cant sit there and tell me that the engines are a world apart (jeeze, its not even like we are comparing a Ford 289 to the Chevy 350).

[ChrisCantSkate]

thanks... now i have a headache from reading all that.

as far as all this goes... i no longer care about numbers. ive tried playing the number game, and its never right. honda motors dont put out face value. jdms are underrated, usdm's are over rated little things make too much of a difference when the major things dont. if you try to build your motor to the best of its potential you'll get an outcome different than what your projected hp or speed output is. ive seen my friends h22 go into the mid 13's in a prelude body with 95% of the interior on just intake, open headers, and cam gears. no one believes him, yet he runs it every day he goes to the track no matter the conditions(well a few tenths if its a extremely hot day) and our track is notouriously slow for everyone else ive ever talked to.

i dont know what the argument is... if its b18 v b16 then get over it. they are both good motors, theres no reason at all to fight over it, both are very potential, and ive seen both put out nice numbers and times.

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
i dont know what the argument is... if its b18 v b16 then get over it. they are both good motors, theres no reason at all to fight over it, both are very potential, and ive seen both put out nice numbers and times.

Xactly, nuff said.

[nonovurbizniz]

To say there isn't a difference between a ctr motor and an itr motor is plain stupid...

to say that they will run equally is even more stupid...


Yes you can get "good numbers out of any honda block". As mentioned in some other threads bisi's d15 was spanking EVERYTHING out there... does that mean you should run out and swap in a d15... I don't think so...

The arguement is that .2 liters giving IDENTICAL everything else... the engine with more displacement will ALWAYS beat the smaller disp. engine... it's just that simple...

to say the "numbers game is never right" is just wrong... a 1.8 is BETTER than a 1.6 given the same technology. The ONLY thing that will make a 1.6 better would be a superior build quality and tuning...

It's plain awe inspiring to me that someone could even try to argue that .2 liters doesn't do much... if that's the case then why would honda have ever built anything but 1.6's... there are apparently NO benifits to more displacement...

Whatever this is just rediculous... you're right your ctr motor is way better than an itr...

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by drdingo21
BTW mike it was a d16.

You asked him if he swapped a b16 and he said no. Not to metion a b16 with that kind of compression would crush you (and me) even worse than it did.

And you didn't belive me:rolleyes: everyone here said the samething i did.....


no faith

I know what i asked him....and i said it was the D16 :yikes: not the b....read the post weenie. :banana: :stickman: Try that on for size....;) :doh:

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
To say there isn't a difference between a ctr motor and an itr motor is plain stupid...

The arguement is that .2 liters giving IDENTICAL everything else... the engine with more displacement will ALWAYS beat the smaller disp. engine... it's just that simple...

Whatever this is just rediculous... you're right your ctr motor is way better than an itr...

First off, nobody ever mentioned the type r motors besides you.
You just like the type r example because the motors are noticably different in power ratings.
Second, we were arguing about the b16a and b18c1 motors which put out identicle final power ratings with slightly different torque and rpm numbers. And, although the GSR motor does have a whoping 2tenths of a liter more, it was concluded that the motors are only slightly different so there is no reason to wet yourself over such a small ammount of displacement.

[cashizslick]

Oh yeah, and to adress your comment about stock civics being much slower than the same car with i/h/e.

A 94 civc ex will only get about 5 hp from all that, so there really is no difference.

BTW, the only car i have seen make a lot of powe from just boltons was the new Hyundai tiberon (i dont like em, but this is interesting) - the thing made 13.5 more hp from just an intake.

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by cashizslick
First off, nobody ever mentioned the type r motors besides you.
You just like the type r example because the motors are noticably different in power ratings.

I mentioned the b18c5 because it's MUCH more similar to the b16b That we've been talking about...


Second, we were arguing about the b16a and b18c1 motors which put out identicle final power ratings with slightly different torque and rpm numbers.

Uh... NO we were arguing about a b16B... Which DOES have the same "final" (it's not final it's peak btw (they occur in different rpm points for each engine... BOTH lose power after that point.)) hp... the b16a has LESS than a GSR and LESS torque... making it not even worth comparing... if you think a GSR engine and a b16a are even MILDLY comparable then you're dumb... A GSR swapped civic would KILL a b16a swapped civic... Off the line and ALL the way through the rev range... the ONLY thing that would give the b16 a glimmer of respect at the end would be it's shorter tranny.... If the GSR had a b16 tranny it would be a SLAUGHTERING...


And, although the GSR motor does have a whoping 2tenths of a liter more, it was concluded that the motors are only slightly different so there is no reason to wet yourself over such a small ammount of displacement.

And by whom was this concluded???? You, and your vast pool of knowledge and experience???

Like I said... if you want a FAIR comparisson... then compare the ITR and the CTR... they are as close to identical in design as you could get... technically speaking the b16b has MORE technology and tweaking than the b18c5... but guess what... those "whopping 2 tenths" make them TOTALLY un-comparable... the b18c5 would BURN the b16B ANY day.. noone with a clue would even bother arguing otherwise.

[cashizslick]

YOU have got to be kidding me - the JDM b16 puts out 170 hp, same as a usdm GSR. The CTR puts out 185hp while the ITR puts out 195hp.

The JDM B16 and the Usdm GSR are extrmemely simmilar, much more so than the B16b and B18C5.

[nonovurbizniz]

the itr and the ctr share just about EVERY component...

the b16 and the b18 share just about NO components...

How are they similar???

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
the itr and the ctr share just about EVERY component...

the b16 and the b18 share just about NO components...

How are they similar???


They are similar cause they put out the same hp smart guy.

[nonovurbizniz]

hp numbers DO NOT make engines comparable...

the b18c1 makes that power because it has higher torque...

the b16b makes that power because it revs to 9k and has LOTS of technology built into it to squeeze out every last drop of NA power out of that engine...

They are NOT similar engines... They have similar peak hp ratings...

[thermal]

ding ding ding ding................round 8

[hooohaa2]

Yay turbo D16!!!!

[ChrisCantSkate]

h22!!!!

[VR4_Craver]

Uh..... YAY K20A3!!! WOOO!!!!.....

[AzCivic]

why do people argue when they OBVIOUSLY dont know what they're talking about!!!!!!!!!!?????????

you know who you are!(c---------k)

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
geez ppl relax there. we all know b,d,h series from honda all suck. the best engine they ever made it's the f series, especially the f22a1's ;) :rolleyes:

i hope you got my sarcasm

thats the engine Bisi is gonna use to get into the 9's, so it cant be too bad.

http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2003/drivers/B_Ezerioha.html

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by AzCivic
why do people argue when they OBVIOUSLY dont know what they're talking about!!!!!!!!!!?????????

you know who you are!(c---------k)



Lemme help your post out:::

Originally posted by AzCivic
why do people argue when they OBVIOUSLY dont know what they're talking about!!!!!!!!!!?????????

you know who you are!(A---------c) - oh wait, thats me :doh:

Thats better.

[AzCivic]

if you really believe what you said, then you REALLY have no clue.

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by AzCivic
if you really believe what you said, then you REALLY have no clue.

no no no no - YOU have no clue - lol

I have no problem arguing with you about something in particular, but when u try to alude to stuff it really doesnt work. Care to try again?

[AzCivic]

i'm done arguing with you. a wall would understand more of what i'm saying than you can. please post some of your ricer ideas(longer gearing, less displacement doesnt really matter, you gotta have retainers to run nitrous, etc) on honda-tech.com so 50 people can teach you a lesson you can't seem to learn here.

[guywithastang]

If I put VTEC on a Viper I would win, fo sho:moon:

[ChrisCantSkate]

my dad can kick your dads ass

[guywithastang]

my mom could kick your dads ass:mad:

[nonovurbizniz]

My mom could give both of your dads' aids... then when they were good and weak...







My dad would WHOOP THEIR ASS'

[cashizslick]

Stacy's Mom

[mylittlecivic]

my grandma could beat you all with her cain!


that reminds me, i might have told you guys but my dad is legally blind. Anyways this kid was hitting him on the back a bunch and bugging the crap out of him when he was trying to walk home so my dad smacked him with his cain and the kid never bugged him again.

[MAXed Out]

nice story mylittlecivic but sucks if ur dad is blind.