Turbo setup

[b20boy]

hi guys..
i'm planning to drop a turbo to my car, an EG civic soch Vtec..
i'm looking for a turbo kit and came across the Garrett GT28R turbo. some guys recommend this turbo to me and they say
it suits this engine very much..
i'm planning to look for this turbo kit with this turbo..
the only turbo kit i found is the edelbrock kit which cost around
$3500.. so i was wondering if there is any other turbo kit around?

[pdiggitydogg]

sounds like the edelbrock kit to me...which is really designed for the d16y8 so youd have to use a different fuel management or modify it to fit your eg.

what engine do you have anyways? your sn is b20, your vehicle says c5, and youre talking about a kit for an ek y8 on a z6 eg...

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by b20boy
is any other turbo kit around?

Greddy (15G mitsubishi) turbo kit - 1500$ (shop around, its really that cheap) 1600$ w/intercooler)

Apexi turbo kit - the only difference with this kit and the Greddy, is that this one has a much better fuel management system (plus, you can upgrade to an even better one designed for the kit + an intercooler) and the turbo is ball bearing.

dont worry about those stupid kits that have a "t3" turbo or bigger, your D16z6 motor wont get that thing fully spooled untill you redline second gear.

[Shaved &/or Laid]

would a b16 handle the t3 ?

[thermal]

Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
would a b16 handle the t3 ?
Easily..... T3 is still tiny bro for your B16A. Go with a T3T04e (make sure to use an "e" trim).

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by cashizslick
dont worry about those stupid kits that have a "t3" turbo or bigger, your D16z6 motor wont get that thing fully spooled untill you redline second gear.

please dont post crap as if its fact when you really have no idea.

[thermal]

yeah man, T3 is a small ass turbo. It also comes in different A/R like most turbos do.....

[IALuder]

how must boost can a T3/T4 handle?

thats with a full moded engine.

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by AzCivic
please dont post crap as if its fact when you really have no idea.


You are gonna tell me that putting a T3 on a D series motor will give the car good power for a daily driver - you have got to be kidding me.

The t3 might be a "small" turbo, but youve got to remember that a D series motor is no beast.

You would be happier with a Smaller turbo 15G/16G/18G on a daily driven car.

[thermal]

how must boost can a T3/T4 handle?
thats with a full moded engine.
Between 20-25 psi.....easily

The t3 might be a "small" turbo, but youve got to remember that a D series motor is no beast.
Right..... but it also depends on the A/R of the T3.

[cashizslick]

True, but - most of the turbo kits that come from Drag/Revhard/F-Max use a t3 that would not work well with a dseries powered car which is also a daily driver.

[thermal]

Dude, all those company uses T3T04 (hybrid)....completely different from a straight T3...... anyway, what are we arguing about? The author of this thread has not responded yet....... I still like your swap tho.......:cool:

[cashizslick]

Originally posted by thermalfi'd16
Dude, all those company uses T3T04 (hybrid)....completely different from a straight T3...... anyway, what are we arguing about? The author of this thread has not responded yet....... I still like your swap tho.......:cool:

i didnt think we were arguing (hope i dont sound argumentitive :()

Anyways, i though with the revhard/drag kits, you had the option to purchase the kit w/a t3.

I will admit that i dont have the turbo knowledge you - can you explain to me what A/R is???

[Shaved &/or Laid]

it stands for

B-series kicks ass.

[thermal]

He he he he... you're right. We werent arguing. Those company's sell those kits as is. The only company that offers option is MAXREV. However, their option is only on the trim sizes such as a T3T04e or T3T04b.

Taken from:
http://www.hstuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185
A/R -A/R means area/radius. It is a formula to determine the size of the compressor and its turbine-housing configuration. Sounds like a lot but to make it simple, the smaller the A/R the faster your spool up time. But the downside is that the top end will suffer and choke off. If you have a large A/R you will be able to flow more air but you will experience a longer spool up time and poor response also known as turbo lag.

peace out cashiz

[IALuder]

yea B-series Kicks major ass.

so at of all turbo companys and turbo setups and stages and crap....

which 3 stand out the most. cost doesnt matter.

[b20boy]

sorry for the confusion..
actually i had the C5 already in my EG..
now i'm planning to swap it out for a Sohc Vtec turbo
as a daily driven and the C5 is swapped into another car
as a race car... maybe a b20 in the future list but surely will
go all motor..
i'm planning to run7psi low boost and 10psi high boost when
needed.. so i'll get a boost controller when i had my turbo kit..
the question is which turbo kit to go for?apexi? Edelbrock?Greddy? there's too many to choose from...

[thermal]

Dude, how much are you willing to put into this? The GReddy kit is cheap but it works. Edelbrock, FMAX, Apex all come with other stuff like intercooler and BOV. Your call bro.......

[pdiggitydogg]

edelbrock is by far the most complete kit out there and the best for the money. Ive talked about it with people who have it and all I hear is praise. However, it is setup to run @ the 7psi. You can turn up the boost, but it is a little more involved than with some of the other kits.
Saying that also points out that all kits have their problems...there is no perfect kit out there. Some have good this and that and have bad piping, and vise versa. If I were you though, and are just looking for a daily driver w/ some boost, Id concider the greddy kit as its efficient, reliable, and not too expensive (though you do need to add an intercooler separately)

[IALuder]

hmm, i have always been into greddy. so im going greddy.

[cashizslick]

Thats not a good reason to buy the kit.

You should buy it because its the cheapest kit on the market, and will some minor tinkering (messin with the black box and other stuff) you can get it to do what it does for Thermalfied D16

[IALuder]

im not turboing a D16.

i am going to do a B18c5 swap. in the future. so why waste money on a D series motor?

ben

[pdiggitydogg]

IMO...you should just leave the c5 as na...to lower the compression for boost you'd just spend more money and lower the low end hp
save your money and get the b18c1 and boost that instead

[IALuder]

170 vs 210....

if i go all motor would the c5 be quicker?
becuase turbo and nos are not a big thing to me. so if i go all motor buying jun parts for the c5, i would beat a boosted c1 couldnt i?

[cashizslick]

no

[cashizslick]

The fastest hondas run boosted C1's

[thermal]

turboing a high compression engine takes a lot of research and patience. i do plan to turbo my JDM ITR B18C regardless.

[pdiggitydogg]

and that, thermal, is why i have such respect for you as a honda driver

[thermal]

Thanks. I know that hondas are lacking in torque and even power.... I've reviewed compressor maps for turbos that will be compatible with my JDM engine. What people do not understand is that, just because the equation fits in, it doesnt mean that the turbo will safely run with the compression rate of the engine. Proper tuning and monitoring devices must still be incorporated and so as decent strenghtening behind the engine block. :yes:

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by SFKing
im not turboing a D16.



what's wrong with a boosted d16? you can get a greddy kit for cheap and you'll have a great starting point....upgrading a boosted d16 has nearly endless possibilities...just don't forget to get a turbo timer..

[IALuder]

i just dont believe a fully mod d motor could even come close to beating a fulling moded B motor.

[AzCivic]

who cares????????????????????

what do you want, a fast car or a "fully modded engine"??

[IALuder]

a fast fully moded engine.

[b20boy]

i'm boostin my D16 cuz i need it as a daily car..
they are just too many turbo cars around my area so
it's hard to keep up with them with an all motor car..
so i think a boosted D16 will make them sweat!
then my C5 will be used as a race car and i'll be looking for
a car to swap it in.. maybe a CRX will be good enuf..
thankz for all those help guys!
i appreciate it..

[IALuder]

a c5 in a crx? damn thats a lot of work and cash.

[AzCivic]

ever see a h22 in a crx? now thats alot of work!

[IALuder]

never seen, i live in iowa. hmm nothing really happens here. people just buy body kits and huge spoilers. let alone decails.

decials add lots of HP POWER!! j/p

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by SFKing
i just dont believe a fully mod d motor could even come close to beating a fulling moded B motor.

your probably 90% right on what you said, but how much is it gonna cost you to have a fully modded boosted B series motor? WAY MORE MONEY compared to a fully modded boosted D series motor. either choice would make any civic fast, and its up to you to decide...though you get more respect for havin' a fast single cam vs a dual cam

[nonovurbizniz]

when you're talking about a "fully modded" engine it doesn't matter really which one it is....

The D series is good to turbo cuz the blocks and STOCK parts are cheap and readilly available... once you're talking about aftermarket parts.... the D series pieces are probobly MORE expensive than B series because they're not as widely used or bought... you can find deals on B series aftermarket rods and pistons because LOTS of dudes buy 80% of what they need for their dream build and then give up or run out of money and sell it for less then they bought it for....

Also when it comes to ALL OUT builds... the series doesn't have ANY effect on the outcome... It's all in the build... sure if you slap pieces A B and C on a D and do the same to a B the B will have more power... but look at bisi's D15... it WAS the fastest all motor civic out there... till he built an F series... now (or at least a couple of months ago) THAT was the fastest civic... so once you delve into built engines there's really no inherent advantage or dis-advantage to a certain motor just because of it's series...

Any shortcomings of a SOHC (Seperately tunable exhaust and intake cams) can be COMPLETELY compensated for with a custom desigened cam (1 custom cam can generally be had for not much more (if not less than) a SET of b series cams) Then at that point you actually have an ADVANTAGE being SOHC because there's less weight and less moving parts.

[IALuder]

hmmm... interesting.

i will still got b series tho.

[thermal]

i can sell you a B16A2 (no tranny no ECU no Axel) for $900:)... he he he he

[b20boy]

guys what do you think about a custom turbo setup compare to turbo kits?
maybe a T25 turbo? which car actually is this turbo from?
then a vortec FMU for the fuel.. maybe a 12:1?
MSD for the ignition retard under boost...
intercooler, pipes...
what else is needed?

[pdiggitydogg]

every kit has a downside-
some have bad piping
some have bad fuel management
some have bad turbos
some arent nearly as complete as they should be (ie greddy and their damn lack of an ic...thats always puzzled me)

with a custom kit you put it all together yourself, picking out only good things, so techinically, its better in both ways of quality and price (generally)

[thermal]

The most popular ones where the T25 came from are from older Nissan 200SX and I think 2nd gen DSM eclipse/talon turbos. Vortech FMU are cool but the N/A to boost transition sux. Like Pdogg said, there are pros/cons on each. If this is your first turbo set-up, I say get a kit and learn from it. Most kits are dyno tested. Plus, it is really hard to answer that question anyway, since each kit has its own limitaton. You have to consider factors like: HP goals, streetability, street legality, internal build-up, boost level, etc.... peace

[pdiggitydogg]

that reminds me

I recently heard from edelbrocks sponsored civic that there was a serious malfunction causing the boost to hit 20psi...the engine blew and thats the end of the story
theyre working on the problem, but those that already bought the kit apparently have to buy the new parts...theyre not free...which is complete ass (only telling what i heard...it might not be true (on the parts at least)...read up yourselves if youre interested)

[b20boy]

yup "thermalfi'd16 " this is my 1st turbo set-up...
and i'm trying to get a lot of information before i
started doing it.. i don't wanna do it half way down
then problem came... just wanna do it rite... i think
it's better to learn from people's experience than
experiencin it myself...
How much can the T25 goes? by means of hp?
are they ball bearing? i think some oem car got
ball bearing turbo in it..

[nonovurbizniz]

older subaru legacy wagons have ihi turbos so do ford probes... those are water cooled... not possitive that they're ball-bearing one's but i'm pretty sure.

[thermal]

Originally posted by b20boy
yup "thermalfi'd16 " this is my 1st turbo set-up...
and i'm trying to get a lot of information before i
started doing it.. i don't wanna do it half way down
then problem came... just wanna do it rite... i think
it's better to learn from people's experience than
experiencin it myself...
How much can the T25 goes? by means of hp?
are they ball bearing? i think some oem car got
ball bearing turbo in it..
I think they are mostly journal sealed bearing. A T25 turbo peak boost can go between 10-16 psi depending on the trim. I'm sure that it will be a great SOHC turbo cuz of its quick spool set-up. A TD04 or TD05 will suffice as well.....

[b20boy]

a TD04 with a A/R of .60
it that ideal for soch vtec engine?
it's from mitsubishi rite?
the T25 from the nissan 200sx will give out
how many hp at its best? 200hp?250hp?
i know a small turbo will spool up fast but will
it be running full boost till redline for a soch vtec engine?

[thud]

Sport Compact Car just did an install of the Edelbrok Kit. It blew up the engine. The "comeplete" kit came with a bad blow off valve or something. Supposed to be only 6 psi, instead it put out around 20 for about 2 seconds then boom;(

[b20boy]

sorry for those guys that bought those kits!
i'm planning to do my own custom kit...
i'll list down the parts that i know i need..
hope i won't left out any..

1.Garrett T28 turbo from Nissan
2.Sard blow off valve
3.check valves
4.vortech FMU
5.MSD ignition system(do i need the Retard system too?)
6.All those neccessary pipes
7.boost meter, A/F meter,Oil Prssure meter, EGT meter
(what else meter do i need?)
8.Apexi AVC-R to control the boost

i plan to run the system at 7-10psi but i know the oem
Nissan turbo ie giving out more than that..
maybe it's at 13psi or so..
then can i use the AVC-R to lower it?

thanks guys

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by b20boy
a TD04 with a A/R of .60
it that ideal for soch vtec engine?
it's from mitsubishi rite?
the T25 from the nissan 200sx will give out
how many hp at its best? 200hp?250hp?
i know a small turbo will spool up fast but will
it be running full boost till redline for a soch vtec engine?

i'm pretty sure the TD04 is very much ideal for a sohc vtec...greddy does offer if for their turbo kits for the civics... and im pretty sure that its from mitsubishi

[thermal]

Originally posted by b20boy
sorry for those guys that bought those kits!
i'm planning to do my own custom kit...
i'll list down the parts that i know i need..
hope i won't left out any..

1.Garrett T28 turbo from Nissan
2.Sard blow off valve
3.check valves
4.vortech FMU
5.MSD ignition system(do i need the Retard system too?)
6.All those neccessary pipes
7.boost meter, A/F meter,Oil Prssure meter, EGT meter
(what else meter do i need?)
8.Apexi AVC-R to control the boost

i plan to run the system at 7-10psi but i know the oem
Nissan turbo ie giving out more than that..
maybe it's at 13psi or so..
then can i use the AVC-R to lower it?

thanks guys
1) T28 is fine but you may suffer some lag. Look into a T3
2)
3) Make your own. Go to my website
4) Get a 12:1 disc
5)MSD 6BTM is my recommendation. It's ability to retard boost is simply helpful when it comes to tuning your timing
6)
7) Add a fuel pressure gauge
8) AVC-R can get really complicated. GReddy profecB is the most user-friendly of all

Boost controllers will only raise boost from the initial wastegate set-point. So, if your wastegate is set at 13, the boost controller is useless unless you lower that initial spring/diaphragm tension. On internal wastegate, it could be a painful task. On exteranl wastegate, all you have to do is change the spring tension.

[thermal]

Originally posted by thud
Sport Compact Car just did an install of the Edelbrok Kit. It blew up the engine. The "comeplete" kit came with a bad blow off valve or something. Supposed to be only 6 psi, instead it put out around 20 for about 2 seconds then boom;(
It was the wastegate that malfunctioned

[b20boy]

the T25 turbo wastegated at 14psi..
do you think stock internals can handle this boost?
how much boost can stock intenal handle max?
is there any mean i can increase the rod of the wastegate
so it can open earlier? this is just my thought...
or maybe i had to go for another turbo with lower boost wastegate?

[nonovurbizniz]

get a turbo that's NOT internally wastgated... then use an aftermarket external... they're MUCH more precise.. and you can buy different springs to change how much it allows the turbo to spool... Oh and they are adjustable +/- a couple of pounds with a simple twist of the top of it.. (some maybe not all)...

I know that the porsche 944's were not internally wastegated...

probobly more...

[b20boy]

ive thought of increasing the length of the rod.
in this way, the wastegate will opens earlier which
means i have a lower boost pressure. then i'll get
a boost controller to increase the boost when needed...
BTW, how much boost can stock internal handles b4
it got ka boom..

[AzCivic]

if tuning is done properly, the internals will take 200 wheel HP easily.

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by b20boy
ive thought of increasing the length of the rod.
in this way, the wastegate will opens earlier which
means i have a lower boost pressure. then i'll get
a boost controller to increase the boost when needed...
BTW, how much boost can stock internal handles b4
it got ka boom..

lengthening the rod will only make it stuck open all the time... not make it open earlier...

the only way to get it to open earlier would be to change the spring in the wastegate (don't think it's possible to do so on most stock ones)... you sometimes can find another stock wastegate with a lower boost setting, that will fit the other turbo...

Other than that you'd have to somehow produce extra boost to feed the vacum line going to the wastegate.

[thermal]

I wouldnt boost more than 8 psi on stock D-series internal without upgraded fuel system components. If you tamper with that internal wasgate rod, it will also prematurely divert flow away from the turbine which will cause "lag". The gate will be open all the time as mentioned....

You can still use an external wastegate with turbos that came off from other cars. You have to jam the gate shut by getting it welded in or find a way to plug it. Then just remove all the internal wastegate components off. You will have to get your turbo manifold modified for an external wastegate. Peace!

[nonovurbizniz]

I don't recomend getting an internal wastegated turbo if you PLAN on using an external... even when they're welded shut the tunnel that leads to them acts like a reversion chamber and F's up the flow of the exhaust gases...

Poor flow is the enemy of turbo efficiency.

It's certainly not the biggest deal in the world... but if you PLAN on using an external I'd get a non-wastegated turbo.