View Full Version : Best swap for a 94 2 door civic
I'm new with the swap topic. I need to know what is the best swap for a 94 civic 2 door. I have 3,500 to spend on the engine or an engine/turbo. Should i go with a 92 integra ls motor and a turbor or should i just get a gsr motor ?? Thanks guy
thermal
07-16-2003, 11:07 AM
I say GSR engine. You can always turbo later. The GSR compression is not that bad to turbo. There are so many misconception about mid range compression + turbo. Get a GSR swap and start with a higher base HP.
An LS engine is not bad neither but your $3500 will not be enough with an LS plus turbo especially if you get a turbo kit. The turbo kit alone will run u dry. Are you doing the labor yourself?
If you want to be a little different, try a B20 swap. It has a higher torque base and is a great platform to turbo as well....
What model GSR would be the best deal for me ?
or should i just go with the ls/vtec....and then later put on a turbo...how much would the ls/vtec run me...I want to do it right...preferable the b20
thermal
07-16-2003, 11:13 AM
All GSR's are B18c1 engines. Any of them will suffice.
An LS/VTEC can de done with a little over what you are paying for an LS swap. It all depends on where you're getting it done from. A CRVTEC is just about the same. But it is hard to find a B20 engine. An LS/VTEC and turbo can be an amazing machine man, eventhough I'm not a fan of the conversion. This coonversion can be unreliable, IMO......
whats the cheapest place to get one?
thermal
07-16-2003, 11:17 AM
Where are u located? If you're in SoCal, try: www.ARDperformance.com or www.speedupgrade.com
U might be able to get the engines from them. Installation is another story....
thermal
07-16-2003, 11:23 AM
Are you willing to drive to Virginia Beach? If so, email me at arceoa@porter.navy.mil
There is an awesome shop here who can help u out.....
yeah i am willing to driving to viriginia..it isnt far from..what is the name of the shop..and what are the prices....
i dont mind spending 3500 and getting my car up to about 200 hp,
i can wait on the turbo....later after my motor is built up to the max for it
nonovurbizniz
07-16-2003, 01:09 PM
^ you won't have 200 hp with ANY swap.... unless you get a REALLY good running type R... but that's certainly not 3500...
also I'm not trying to insult you but I think you should save the money and do a LOT more research... you don't want to jump into this by throwing money and praying...
there should be a plan based on YOUR knowledge and experience of what you want in the long run and the best way to go about it...
if you ask me making any non-vtec into a vtec is a silly idea... if you want vtec get a vtec block... the non-vtec blocks are NOT designed for high reving and generally don't last too long... sure you COULD be the exception but I HIGHLY doubt it...
If I were you I'd get a gsr or ls swap... if you go ls, the turbo down the line should get you to whatever goals you have if you have the money...
Same goes for the gsr but with a little more cost up front but more power and the ability to hold the gears for a little longer...
In my opinion the best thing to do would be to figure out what YOU want.. by reading and doing research not by just asking what someone else thinks...
just my .02
I am going with the gsr swap and turbo it up later....trying to find a place with the cheapest gsr .....i'll worry about the turbo at the end of the yr
thermal
07-16-2003, 02:28 PM
I PM'd you Ryub
AzCivic
07-16-2003, 02:30 PM
what model civic do you have???
i have a 94 civic ex 2 door ...what does PM mean? this is my first day on the forum
AzCivic
07-16-2003, 02:42 PM
have you considered just turbocharging the motor you have?
You dont gotta do a swap to be fast.
I thought about just turboing up the motor i have but i would like to have a faster motor to play with plus the gsr would be able to handle more power
thermalfi'd16
I didnt not get your PM yet
thermal
07-16-2003, 02:58 PM
PM= Private Message
It should be there now bro......:cool:
thanks man....let me check
Where can i purchase a GSR motor for the best price....
pdiggitydogg
07-16-2003, 05:08 PM
how long has this thread been here?! How did I miss it completely?...I mean Im here ALL THE DAMN TIME...........yeah......
anyways...
www.hmotorsonline.com is the most highly praised online shop for honda motors, besides www.importautosalvage.com. Both are very good and will give you a decent price on GOOD CLEAN motors
thermal
07-16-2003, 07:13 PM
It started today man. You're okay :yes:. It just happened to be that we were both online at the same time.
AzCivic
07-16-2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Ryub
I thought about just turboing up the motor i have but i would like to have a faster motor to play with plus the gsr would be able to handle more power
how much power do you plan on making?
nonovurbizniz
07-16-2003, 10:41 PM
A built turbo d16 won't make the same power as a stock turboed gsr... and it won't have ANYWHERE near the torque either...
I'm not slamming turboed D's but if he's looking for big power in the end, dumping money into a d16 is NOT the answer.
So what are your power goals?
AzCivic
07-16-2003, 11:22 PM
I think if your looking for a car to make big power with, a civic is not the answer.
In the beginning everyones looking to make BIG power till they realize that a FWD car isnt really worth dumping all kinds of money into.
There are people making +300hp with just aftermarket pistons/rods(about 1k$) in dseries engines.(and a turbo, obviously)
I'm hoping to hit around over 300 hp after i am down with the swap and the turbo if possible. I'll be happy with 300 hp on the two door civic
nonovurbizniz
07-17-2003, 02:31 PM
^you want another platform...
a 300hp civic will be all but undrivable... unless that's a peak number...
even with a dif you'll be doing nothing but spinning wheels...
Is this a track car only or street driven?
Is this your first car... or first project?
this is my first project...i have a couple of other cars to drive arouind
So what GSR motor do I go with ...the easy to fit into a 94 Civic EX 2 Door coupe.....
nonovurbizniz
08-30-2003, 01:30 PM
Like has already been said like 50 times....
ANY gsr motor will do... obd1 will be easier to wire... either way... I don't think you have ANYWHERE near the amount of info you need to make a good decision.. or to end up with anything...
Are you going to be doing this yourself or sending it to a shop?
If a shop then let them decide... they'll do what they do...
If it's you then I think you have a LOT more research to do.
Shaved &/or Laid
08-30-2003, 02:04 PM
yeah man. GSR is ONE KIND of motor. b18c1 period. theres no better kind of GSR they are all the same.
also, try looking into homemadeturbo.com. Maybe youll be able to throw some kinda junkyard turbo setup on there. A prefab kit is no better, just a little less work for a WHOLE LOT more money. also, if you know anyone from hondatech, they might be able to get you a hookup on the DRAG turbo kit cauyse theres a place selling htem really reall really cheap to ht members, if hteyre still doing it. www.honda-tech.com is a good place to ask questions too. Theyre a more advanced forum as far as pure speed/ functional cars.
ebpda9
08-30-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
yeah man. GSR is ONE KIND of motor. b18c1 period. theres no better kind of GSR they are all the same.
umm there are 2 gsr engines: b18c1 for the 94-01 integras and b17something for the 90-93 integra (very very rare thou).
jaberg00
09-02-2003, 01:04 AM
well u got a bit of money aight, this is what u do Get a B20B thats 126hp or B20Z which is 146hp i would get that B20Z it only cost about $800 search for a b16a or b18c1 head and bolt it up, that combo is better than the GSR it self way mor torque and hp, then i would suggest u get a LS tranny, and like that guy said well he dont kno what he is talking about the non-Vetc block can withstand high rev trush me.
Shaved &/or Laid
09-05-2003, 07:37 PM
yeah with a turbo ;)
and i assumed he wanted the same model year. my bad
drdingo21
09-12-2003, 01:48 PM
Im surprised this idea hasn't been throwen out yet...
There is also the 225 hp H22 engine from a prelude. The engine itself is around 2k but you will have to upgrade the suspension of the car.
Its not near as bad as most people make it out to be. I drove one 2 weeks ago (the guy had just under 3k invested in it) the car handled great (don't remeber what upgrades he did to the suspension) and it was defintly fast.
Most people shoot down this idea because the engine is some work to fit into a civic, but once its done it is bad ass.
AzCivic
09-12-2003, 02:02 PM
youre forgetting the problem of breaking axles, NOT due to the extra power but due to the akward angle they sit at in a civic w/ a h22.
cashizslick
09-13-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Ryub
So what GSR motor do I go with ...the easy to fit into a 94 Civic EX 2 Door coupe.....
THe B16A is a great motor too - although the GSR is slightly superior, but i must say - the New motor in my car has made a BIG difference in the way the car behaves - im very pleased with it.
cashizslick
09-13-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by AzCivic
youre forgetting the problem of breaking axles, NOT due to the extra power but due to the akward angle they sit at in a civic w/ a h22.
The Civic chassi is not designed to handle an H22 - plain and simple. The motor sits awkwardly in the car/not to mention it's power numbers require you to greatly beef up ur suspension in order to be able to drive properly.
BTW, if you put an H22 in ur car, consider it a car that will only run "the straight and narrow" cause the added weight on your front end will make you corner like crap.
nonovurbizniz
09-13-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by cashizslick
The Civic chassi is not designed to handle an H22 - plain and simple. The motor sits awkwardly in the car/not to mention it's power numbers require you to greatly beef up ur suspension in order to be able to drive properly.
BTW, if you put an H22 in ur car, consider it a car that will only run "the straight and narrow" cause the added weight on your front end will make you corner like crap.
how does it "sit awkwardly"???
The power has NOTHING to do with suspension upgrades... it's the weight... which is not much more than a gsr... or b16...
It'll be more front heavy making for minorly worse handling then a b or d series civic but nothing that can't be worked around with a tunable suspension.
you would only realy need stiffer front springs and maybe a beefier set of sway bars...
The reason the civic chassis isn't "designed to handle an H22" is because they (h22's) have a front crossmember mount which goes un-used since our chassis' don't have a mount point...
The aftermarket mounts seem to be working out fine...
The rumour that h22's don't belong in civic's started a LONG time ago when the swap craze started... ONE shop tried it and said it was too squirelly and unsafe since you have hammer dents into the frame...
With the new mount kits there's little to no problem...
Having said all this... I wouldn't recomend the swap for ANYONE but someone who know's enough about it or someone with enough money to pay someone who know's how to do it.
You have to cut the tranny mount ear on the frame (preventing you from being able to swithcing back to a b or d series motor)
you also need to cut a hole in the pass. compartment for the cables for the cable shift tranny to come into the pass. compt. and attach to the shifter assembly... I believe you also have to cut the shifter hole a little wider (or maybe drill holes to mount the h22 shifter ass.).
Over all it's a lot of work. and not for the faint of heart.
cashizslick
09-13-2003, 02:56 PM
Well, i guess you just agreed with me - H22 swap's are a bad idea because of the ammount of stress that motor will put on your front end. Look at the Difference between the front end on ChrisCantSkate's car and the front end on mine - see how the nose of his car is longer? It is able to properly seat the H22 which was designed to be in his car, if that were in my car, my weight transfer would be thrown all off and that motor would reak havik on my front end.
slowEJ6
09-13-2003, 06:40 PM
omg this thread is filled with nothing but BS.
an H22A in a civic is JUST FINE for daily driving. you CAN take corners with an H22A swap in your civic as long as you take the time to work on your SUSPENSION to handle it.....A&J Racing had a 96+ hatch with an h22a....they RACED it on a COURSE quite a few times.....no its not ideal but its not impossible.
GSR motor....there are 92 and 93's...B17's.
there are 94 and 95's...B18C1's...OBDI
there are 96-01's....B18C1....OBDII
there are usdm version, there are jdm versions.
difference in power, torque, compression, etc....
a B18C1 is not really SUPERIOR to a B16A at all....it just has more displacement/power.
If you really want to do something that'll make you faster than a B16A, B18C1, B18C5, H22A....do a K20A swap.
20lbs lighter than a B series - power of an H22A.....6spd, you cant go wrong.
of course its expensive(very) and well, as everyone else said....you need to do more research before diving into something like this. Especially a K20A swap because it is a wiring NIGHTMARE.
nonovurbizniz
09-14-2003, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by cashizslick
Well, i guess you just agreed with me - H22 swap's are a bad idea because of the ammount of stress that motor will put on your front end. Look at the Difference between the front end on ChrisCantSkate's car and the front end on mine - see how the nose of his car is longer? It is able to properly seat the H22 which was designed to be in his car, if that were in my car, my weight transfer would be thrown all off and that motor would reak havik on my front end.
No I did not agree with you...
I don't know what you mean "reak havoc on the front end"...
It won't... it will reak havoc on tires... and axels... but it won't actively DO anything to your front end...
As stated by slowej6... it's more than possible and FINE in most cases... most find that simply buying integra rate front springs instead of civic springs is MORE than enough to compensate for the weight...
The only problems I point out are it's a hassle... it's not a drop in deal like a bseries... and it leaves you stuck with an h22 forever... (I'm sure you could weld on a new tranny mount ear.
There are LOTS of front heavy cars that handle fine... it's all a matter of tuning your suspension for it...
If you have coil overs and just make the rear sit MINUTELY lower than the front it will probobly return the weight distibution to at least that of a b-swapped civic... put your battery in the trunk... get a cf hood and it's same as stock...
the weight is not that much different then a B... maybe 75 lbs..
As far as k20...
Do they even make a mount kit for that into a 92-95 civic... I thought that that was for 2001+ only w/o custom install?
slowEJ6
09-15-2003, 12:01 AM
no commercial mount kits yet but....you could always get someone thats already done it to fabricate some for a pretty penny.
with the h22a though....be sure to not go too low because the header WILL scrape.
sc0rch
09-16-2003, 11:51 AM
LS/VTEC for sure...thats what i'm going with...the guy i'm working for found a head with everything for $200 and a block with everything but the head for $600 plus they are going through the head and doing everything for another $500
jaberg00
09-19-2003, 11:39 AM
go LS Turbo Its better, less work thatn tO Vtec it and will give the GSR Problems, i got a LS in mY 93 ex and im beating on V6 accords And already race twoo GSR and beat them but it depends on how you tune ya engine 96 LS MOtor Pr3 Ecu you wont be disappoitned
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