VTEC suck???

[pbateson]

Why the peoples say VTEC suck?

[pdiggitydogg]

because they dont know what it is...and they could be jealous :bandit:

[pbateson]

Well, VTEC is faster than Non-VTEC cuz there is more power on the engine.

[nonovurbizniz]

vtec does kind of suck imo...

I had a twin cam 1.6 sentra and it had a VERY similar power band (only it had more lowend power) with NO vtec...

I'm CONSTANTLY sitting there looking at my tach being like

"oh great only about 3-4k more before I hit the power band"...

It's pretty sad in itself that my CAR has a powerband.

I gotta say I'd MUCH rather have a turboed ls than a c5 motor.

[Duckydos]

VTEC is over-rated.

[ebpda9]

VTEC is god's gift to cars.


now getting serious, i don't know if vtec sucks or not but it caught fast because of a catchy name. BMW has a more advanced variable valve timing than honda but you don't hear anyone paraying it. also ferrarri has infinite valve timing and it's a lot better than honda but they don't sound as cool as vtec. most of the cars now have variable valve timing so i think vtec is overrated. just a catchy name

[Wren57]

well, vtec doesnt suck, but you gotta realize its not exactly unique. toyota has vvti, nissan has cvtcs, etc. As hondaman said, most cars these days have some type of vvt, so calling it vtec is corporate name association: kinda like calling it a band-aid when in fact its an adhesive strip, or in the south calling any carbonated beverage a coke. its just that type of thing. vtec is nothing special, it was just the first system of its kind so it got the name recognition...

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by highlander
well, vtec doesnt suck, but you gotta realize its not exactly unique. toyota has vvti, nissan has cvtcs, etc. As hondaman said, most cars these days have some type of vvt, so calling it vtec is corporate name association: kinda like calling it a band-aid when in fact its an adhesive strip, or in the south calling any carbonated beverage a coke. its just that type of thing. vtec is nothing special, it was just the first system of its kind so it got the name recognition...


but you gotta admit vtec sounds cooler than vvti or cvtcs or vanos or whatever :o

[VR4_Craver]

I think people say vtec sucks because they dont understand what it really does.... And dont you hate when some one spells it "V-Tech"? Dont they know that "V-Tech" makes phones and toys? idiots.....:no: :no:

[Racing Rice]

The idea of VTEC doesnt suck, stupid people that think its like a turbo kicking in suck! :irked:

[nonovurbizniz]

^it is like a super late spooling crappy turbo...

It essentially achieves the same purpose (from a factory)... it MILDLY increases performance of the engine... turbos just do it better with LESS parasitic loss...

I'm curios to see if you could get MORE horsepower out of a vtec engine could have with the loss of all the extra rocker arms and lobes etc... I'm sure it wouldn't be better w.o but I bet with some head/cam modification it could be easily.

[Mushroom]

Um, more hp without all the extra lobes? Sure, you use only the more aggressive profile (the one it switches to when "vtec kicks in" :) ). Or even something a little more aggressive. Your peak HP will go up, and your low end will get choppy and you'll lose gas mileage.

vtec was the first vvt in a production car I could afford, so it's cool. It's also a brilliant engineering answer to the question: how do I get more power-on-demand, reliability and gas mileage out of a basic gas engine?

[93Honda]

don't drive it.

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by 93Honda
don't drive it.


That would take care of the reliability and gas mileage.. But you would get much performance out of it.;)

[93Honda]

push it down hill

[02_Si]

The idea of VTEC is to have a low emissions car that is economical and have moderate hp at the same time... people want a car that doesn't eat up gas like a domestic, but has high hp like an import.. so why not have both... I think VTEC is a good thing, but you have to take it for what it is.. a way to have high hp per litre while maintaining low emissions and mpg standards.

[Civickid0to60]

VTEC engines I think are better quality then others, they help a lot with performance in all the ones ive been in. I dont know what everyone is bitching about. THOUGH I dont even see how you could even relate it to turbo, really, its in it's own class I think. If you relate anything to turbo (in my book) nothing compares, but hey whatever.

And if VTEC sucks so much then why is it so popular? And a bragging right?

[nonovurbizniz]

^ because ignorant kids think it's cool to have... and because it with the exception of the d15 vtec... they are the PERFORMANCE engines for hondas/acuras...

If you ran just the vtec lobes or more radical ones the hp would be AWFUL... EVERYWHERE... peak may be ok but it's not gunna be great at all...

My point of removing all the extra lobes/rockers is that the weight of all of that makes it harder for the car to perform... obviously it has it's benifits as well.

vtec in ALL honda vtec engines (barring the d15) are performance minded it has NOTHING to do with fuel economy... most 16valve 4bangers get identical if not better gas milage. economy is a benifit of running MUCH less than half of the average v8's displacement.

vtec is ok and all but like I said.. comparable cars made by ALL other manufacturers perform similarly... they just don't have "vtec"... my sentra was the NON sport version and it was MUCH faster than my civic (this has a lot to do with the fact that my sentra was factory stripped... and my civic is an ex) but the point is it is NOT astoundingly faster.. and an ser of the same year would own it ANY day of the week (even with a swap)... an ser would beat a integra gsr no problem. I used to beat my buddy's older brother in his ls with my sentra.

I'm not saying it's lame or worthless or that it wasn't a great advance in engine design... i'm saying it's WAY over hyped and the fact that it's a "bragging right" is REALLY lame... for the "fast" engines... they're not that fast...

vr6 or 1.8t would own a c5. ser vspec or spec v or whatever would too probobly...

my sentra which used to beat my friends bro's ls used to get it's ass handed to it when I raced miata's or escort gt's... and I'm SURE my sentra would've beat my civic.

and I was joking when I said it's like a turbo... the point was it was like a SUPER shitty slow spooling one.

[pdiggitydogg]

its a bragging right to ignorant people...

and dude...thats waaaaaaaay too much info in your sig...:o

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg

and dude...thats waaaaaaaay too much info in your sig...:o

[Civickid0to60]

everybody lists what they have, why not me?

[nonovurbizniz]

I don't think anyone has a list that long... and If you look below I only have important info.... NONE.

Oh and LOTS of stuff is mis-spelled... and you list what kind of light bulbs you use.... and vague descriptions of things that we don't know what are... and your pic is REALLY big and in bad resolution.

[pdiggitydogg]

because your sig is bigger than a full screen

[thermal]

Here we go again..... The VTEC drama......

[vick88]

whats the downside to vtec, cuz i dont think domestic cars use them for a certain reason

[Addict]

The whole idea of VTEC was already said. Fuel economy without sacrificing all of your power.

Originally posted by vick88
whats the downside to vtec, cuz i dont think domestic cars use them for a certain reason
They don't want in on the ricer movement.............

[nonovurbizniz]

domestics don't have valvetiming because domestic engineers SUCK REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD... I'd be shocked to find out if any of the big three actually imployed ANY engineers that graduated or are not blind.

and like I said before... I don't think vtec with the exception of the d15 has ANYTHING to do with fuel economy... that's just a trait inherient to a VERY small displacement 4valve/cylinder 4 banger.

[90civiclxryder]

vtec is for high compression and domestics in general are low compression motors

[chase]

Originally posted by 90civiclxryder
vtec is for high compression and domestics in general are low compression motors

first off, this is absolutely wrong. second of all, actually cadillac had something similar to vtec way back in the 80's. anyone ever heard of 4-6-8? oh and while we are talking about it, dont forget that toyota has vvt-i and vvtl-i. variable valve timing with intelligence and variable valve timing and lift with intellegence.vtec in ALL honda vtec engines (barring the d15) are performance minded it has NOTHING to do with fuel economy... most 16valve 4bangers get identical if not better gas milage. economy is a benifit of running MUCH less than half of the average v8's displacement.

do you have a vtec engine in your car? is so, drive it hard, really hard so that you stay in vtec almost all the time, see what your gas mileage goes to.

[nonovurbizniz]

Originally posted by chase
first off, this is absolutely wrong. second of all, actually cadillac had something similar to vtec way back in the 80's. anyone ever heard of 4-6-8? oh and while we are talking about it, dont forget that toyota has vvt-i and vvtl-i. variable valve timing with intelligence and variable valve timing and lift with intellegence.

A. cadillac's 4-6-8 had NOTHING to do with valve timing... and it wasn't a performance feature either... it WAS for gas milage and it also SUCKED hard... most people disabled it within a year... and they have NO resale value...

B. Toyota is a japanese company not american and it came out with vvti AFTER vtec...

do you have a vtec engine in your car? is so, drive it hard, really hard so that you stay in vtec almost all the time, see what your gas mileage goes to.

I have a vtec car and I do drive it hard and it gets 30 mpg EVERYWHERE... I'm also the one who said it's not for economy... it's not it's for performance... 4cyl 16 valves ALL get good milage under 2 liters and above still gets good milage.

But you are correct in saying that

quote:
Originally posted by 90civiclxryder
"vtec is for high compression and domestics in general are low compression motors"

^that is absolutely wrong...

Domestics are NOT typically low compression and vtec has NOTHING to do with compression. Nor is it more or less benificial to an engine based on it's compression.

I don't understand the total mis-conception when it comes to honda/import guys thinking they're high compression and domestics are low... my z6 is under 10:1 (perfectly resonable; on the high side but NOT high) there were STOCK corvettes in the 60's that had 10:1 and 11:1 and I BELIEVE even 12:1...

[member]

Originally posted by chase
anyone ever heard of 4-6-8?

yes, the soccer formation?

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
[Bvtec in ALL honda vtec engines (barring the d15) are performance minded it has NOTHING to do with fuel economy... most 16valve 4bangers get identical if not better gas milage. economy is a benifit of running MUCH less than half of the average v8's displacement. [/B]

so you wanna tell me that the f22/f23 is a performance oriented engine ? or the j30a1 or the j32a1 ? because i won't beleieve you at all.

[chase]

nonovurbizniz yep muscle cars in the 60's had real high compression sometimes, but they also had leaded gas that at premium levels had race gas octane levels and the lead in the gas helped to keep temperatures inside the cylinders lower so that high compression was feasible. my accord with h22a and f22 high geared trans will not get 30 mpg if i dont want it to. and i drive 20 miles on the highway one way, everyday. it will get anywhere between 20 and 30 depending on how hard i am on it. member--no not the soccer formation, they had a way of controlling the valves so that at low engine load, it ran on 4 cylinders, under high load, it ran on all 8 and in the middle, it ran on 6. yes it sucked and yes everyone disabled it because it sucked, but it was a way of controlling the valves, and now they have variable solenoids that actually move the valves, they run on a duty-cycle. toyota is a japanese company? hell after over 10 years of working on them, i should know that by now. i was making a reference to the different systems and the fact that they forgot one. settle down a little, i am no being offensive or defensive, just stating facts and making comments.

[Addict]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
and like I said before... I don't think vtec with the exception of the d15 has ANYTHING to do with fuel economy... that's just a trait inherient to a VERY small displacement 4valve/cylinder 4 banger.
:rolleyes:
It has everything to do with fuel economy & power. It is a compromise between the two. Without VTEC, the EXs, Sis, etc would be more dogs than they already are.
But you're right. A smaller displacement engine is inevitably going to use less gas than a larger displacement engine. That's just how it works.

Originally posted by chase
first off, this is absolutely wrong. second of all, actually cadillac had something similar to vtec way back in the 80's. anyone ever heard of 4-6-8? oh and while we are talking about it, dont forget that toyota has vvt-i and vvtl-i. variable valve timing with intelligence and variable valve timing and lift with intellegence.

do you have a vtec engine in your car? is so, drive it hard, really hard so that you stay in vtec almost all the time, see what your gas mileage goes to.
VVTI was already mentioned above....

Good luck staying in VTEC all the time. And like I said above, it was designed with the idea of offering good fuel economy and power. I get 24-27 MPG on my Si. And I have a very heavy foot.

[chase]

VVTI was already mentioned above....

yes it was, and i stated that. but vvtl-i wasnt. it changes the actual intake cam timing and has large lobes like a honda vtec engine. vvt-i just changes intake cam timing.

[Mushroom]

4-6-8 reference (it's back!)
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/020710/11/njjp.html

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
If you ran just the vtec lobes or more radical ones the hp would be AWFUL... EVERYWHERE... peak may be ok but it's not gunna be great at all...

So if hardwired my solenoids to I was running the vtec-high lobes all the time, my hp would be awful everywhere? How is that possible? If I ran the engine at peak hp (say, 6200 rpm or whatever) in the two configurations (stock and vtec-high-only) why wouldn't they produce identical torque?

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz My point of removing all the extra lobes/rockers is that the weight of all of that makes it harder for the car to perform...

They're awfully small.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz vtec in ALL honda vtec engines (barring the d15) are performance minded it has NOTHING to do with fuel economy...

Wrong. It has everything to do with the tradeoff between economy, performance and other factors.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz I'm not saying it's lame or worthless or that it wasn't a great advance in engine design... i'm saying it's WAY over hyped

Who over-hypes it? It seems like honda treats it in the list of engine features the same way any other manufacturer does.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz vr6 or 1.8t would own a c5. ser vspec or spec v or whatever would too probobly...

Comparing a smaller engine to a 6-cylinder, a turbo and a 2.5L, that's a good argument. Know what? An LS1 would beat up on it too - ergo vtec must suck!

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz I said it's like a turbo... the point was it was like a SUPER shitty slow spooling one. [/B]

Put a turbo on your car. You'll increase power output and trash your gas mileage. Put vvt on your car. Power output increases, gas mileage doesn't decrease nearly as much. The two are completely different. vvt is not equivalent to a "shitty slow spooling" turbo.

edit for embarassing typos

[02_Si]

^yeah, i agree.. I don't see how you can compare VTEC to a turbo. Cam timing vs. forced induction.

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by Mushroom
4-6-8 reference (it's back!)
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/020710/11/njjp.html


edit for embarassing typos


isn't that like the trinitron engines in ford pickups ???? :confused:

[nonovurbizniz]

4.6.8 fuel/ignition starved certain cylinders during points where all the torque all 8 weren't needed...I could be wrong but I don't think it had much if anything to do with the valves...
*edit* I did some looking around and the only thing I could find is ONE guy who said it "lifted the camshaft to keep all the valves closed" but that doesn't make much sense to me... *?edit*

My vtec engine as well as ALL b series vtecs are performance minded... I don't know crap about the f series or accord engines... like I said it's EITHER performace z6, b series or economy d15 the one's hondamaniac mentioned...

the vtec in my car has NOTHING to do with gas savings... it's smaller profile lobes are to get the most power at low rpm and the biggers are to make the best top end... niether are for fuel economy like the d15's in which 1 valve opens lower than the other to create a better air/fuel swirl making it possible to run leaner... ie less gas....

Turbo's are about the most fuel efficient mod you can do to your car... so what you're saying is dumb... Of course you add more fuel because you've effectively increased your displacement... it's till FAR more fuel efficient than a car making the same power na. beyond that.. My comparison to turbo was a JOKE...

turbo: adds power ONLY after it spools (2-6k)
vtec: adds power ONLY at a certain rpm range (4-7k)

they are BOTH power adders and they BOTH leave you with a piss poor bottom end... the vtec is just a REALLY CRAPPY one that takes FOREVER to kick in... it was a joke.

I'm comparing cars in the SAME class... A 1.8t is DIRECT competition with the civic/integra... so is the vr6... just because they use displacement to make power instead of vtec doesn't make it an invalid point...

want a more valid point... my sentra had a 1.6 that ran MUCH better than my civic and it had a MUCH more linear powerband... and it's not even their sport model...

[chase]

no it didnt starve the cylinders, there was a solenoid on top of the rocker arm that actually disengaged the rocker so that the valve did not open on the cylinder that it was dropping. it didnt lift the camshaft shit, the cam was still in the block in bearings that were pressed into the block.

[thermal]

.......... and the VTEC drama continues....... wait till BDC sees this post. That mofo knows his shit!

My 2 cents on this topic will not be announced..... ha ha ha ha... I'll just wait for BDC to make this more interesting.