republicans... explane this to me [Archive]

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ChrisCantSkate

01-15-2003, 07:32 PM

i just read we are gonna be running a 300 billion dollar budject deficet BEFORE going to war, and will be larger if we do (source: http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0700&id=03011518203813419 ) then bush declines affermative action (source: http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0700&id=03011518231713429 ) and we're giving 30billion to africa, and selling our military helicopters to turkey(almost an enemy) in hope of persuading them to fight iraq (source: http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0700&id=03011519175613714 ) im sorry, WTF is bush doing? trying to run us into the ground? we should impeach him

mt.biker

01-15-2003, 07:37 PM

bush is fighting a war... as for these actions.. welcome to AMERICA my friend! lol trust me if your pissed at these sales that you can see, there are worse ones going on without your knowledge.

Wren57

01-15-2003, 08:24 PM

ChrisCantSkate

01-15-2003, 09:42 PM

running a deficet in time of war is not a good idea when we are behind so much, while in time of crisis, money is needed, we need to not cut taxes for the rich, and use this money for the war efforts that seem unaviodable. we had missile silo's in turkey durring the cold war, but we are doing the chopper sale in order to persuade turkey to join us. $300 billion is rather extreme for expansion.

Wren57

01-15-2003, 09:48 PM

300billion is a drop in the bucket... US GDP is in the neighborhood of 10trillion... I guarantee you part of that 300billion is going towards beefind up national defense at home and overseas... as for cutting taxes for the rich, well doh, they are the ones that pay basically all of the taxes... reaganomics with the trickle-down theory does work. I know uve read this thread, but you may wanna read it again keeping in mind the tax implications on the different levels of income earners http://www.hondastyle.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11152

ChrisCantSkate

01-15-2003, 09:54 PM

i know about taxes, im a business major. i understand how money is made and what the benifits from deficets and surpluses are.

shortfalls of $200 billion to $300 billion this fiscal year and next that could be the biggest on record.

thats not normal if its the biggest on record

i dunno... im not a fan of what bush thinks is good for the world

Wren57

01-15-2003, 09:59 PM

Oh well, two different views... guess we need to agree to disagree...

mt.biker

01-15-2003, 10:09 PM

you know what, there is no point in worrying about this because the reality is you can't do shit about it until you get to vote again. Its a waste of time to pay attention to how money is spent when you have no say in it. They didn't ask you how they are going to spend the money, they didn't ask you if you wanted a tax break they just do what they think needs to be done for their 4 year term and hope it gets them in next time around.

Chris dont worry about this, you country is the riches in the world. if you can't find 300billion to fund a war you have bigger issues then this.

ChrisCantSkate

01-15-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by mt.biker
you know what, there is no point in worrying about this because the reality is you can't do shit about it until you get to vote again. Its a waste of time to pay attention to how money is spent when you have no say in it. They didn't ask you how they are going to spend the money, they didn't ask you if you wanted a tax break they just do what they think needs to be done for their 4 year term and hope it gets them in next time around.

Chris dont worry about this, you country is the riches in the world. if you can't find 300billion to fund a war you have bigger issues then this.
it just seems bush wants to do as much as he can in his 4 or 8 year term, and **** up our economy and piss everyone off, then leave office and have someone else deal with it

Wren57

01-15-2003, 10:12 PM

Do you seriously believe he is trying to screw us over? How can you possibly believe that? He is the leader of our country and is doing a damn good job IMO... and btw, he is my 5th cousin:pfft:

ChrisCantSkate

01-15-2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by highlander
Do you seriously believe he is trying to screw us over? How can you possibly believe that? He is the leader of our country and is doing a damn good job IMO... and btw, he is my 5th cousin:pfft:
yes i do. he is trying to keep a war going, he could resolve this without going to war if he tried. i want peace and a good leader, he just isnt doing what i think is in the best interest of the nation. we have no proof of weapons(although i do not deny their existsance) but if we go to war ona hunch... and we end up being wrong, and pull the whole world against him... i want more proof, or take our sadam silently with a hitman. i do not like how the whole world is being pulled against iraq or osama. bush is a power hungery man, thats what it is. he is attacking sadam now that bin ladan is not a feasable target. he wants the american public behind him so in 04 he can be re-elected as this great prez who stoped the terrorists. they dont wana just bomb america, they want their holy land back. this is a war between middle eastern countries that we have no buisness being in.

Wren57

01-15-2003, 10:26 PM

It became our business on September 11th, 2001. This is not a holy war, this is a war for freedom. I happen to agree with you on needing more proof before attacking Sadaam, as we would look like fools if we came up empty after a war. Of course he wants the American public behind him for 04 so he can continue to secure this nations future- having the title of president is far from his #1 motive. As for takign him out with a hitman- this would be obvious and would clearly show that we have lowered ourselves to terrorism, just as we so blatantly condemn. This is not a holy war, this is a war against a few radicals, bent on destroying yours and mine way of life, amongst a very peaceful religion.

ChrisCantSkate

01-15-2003, 10:31 PM

iraq is an organized nation, they have not commited a act of terrorism on the USA i am aware of. i am all in favor of punishing the terrorist orginazations, but, sadaam(who i dont like, dont get me wrong, we should have accidently forgot to feed him when we had him in our custody after the gulf war) has not attacked america recently in a way that merits this war. he apparently(UN inspectors cant find sh!t) dosnt even have weapons. find weapons, and disarm him. do no attack before knowing. that is what i want

mt.biker

01-16-2003, 09:16 AM

Actually the reason why your nation was bombed was because in the 70's your CIA backed a war against russia with middle eastern allies that you trained, gave supplies and intel to and then when they beat russia you pulled out and stopped talking to them leaving them in worse condition then before you helpped them fight a war because you weren't willing to directly engage russia.

Bush is now just cleaning up what all your other prez have done. As for iraq, the CIA put him in power many years ago and now this position has gone to his head. Simply taking him out with a sniper is harder then you think because the country is so closed to the rest of the world and he has more then a few look alikes. Not to mention in the mid 60s (i believe) the US gov't decided they would no longer be in the hit business after trying to take out fidel and it went ary (or maybe it was someone else). These days they just bomb all the places they think he might be.

As for your gov'ts continued militrary actions, chris you should learn do deal with it. Your country will be at war with someone until you are no longer a super power (all countries fall in time). Your gov't plays military police with the world, you should be thankful that its not someone like china with their corrupt morals or how about put russia back in power. Now theres an idea, even more ****ed up. Chris honestly I think you have it to good and are spliting hairs. For you to go on living the life you do, your gov't has to keep flexing its military might.

My uncle was on the USS Enterprise at a dinner with the senior staff and they were joking around with why the Navy has become such a big part of any military engage meant. And its because in 2-3days the US armed forced can be in any country's backyard causing a shit storm. Just be thankful that you dont have to fight and that other men are out there doing the dirty work, and forget the details until it starts concerning you.

ebpda9

01-16-2003, 09:59 AM

all the problems come from Israel. If US will take the hands off Israel, and stop helping them, all the arab world will be happy and will leave US alone. This is how i view it. I read a lot of papers lately (international), and not every country in europe is happy with the US actions

mt.biker

01-16-2003, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
all the problems come from Israel. If US will take the hands off Israel, and stop helping them, all the arab world will be happy and will leave US alone. This is how i view it. I read a lot of papers lately (international), and not every country in europe is happy with the US actions
The USA will always be there to help Israel because they helped to found it after WWII and by Christians Israel is thought to be the holy land, the US is a country based on Christian beliefs and so they will be there aslong as they are needed.

There is no one easy answer that stops your military from going to war and there is no one cause for all this fighting.

V8killimports

01-16-2003, 11:16 AM

Wow.. after reading this thread it reminds me why we don't want a democrat as a president. First off, Iraq IS a terrorist nation. They support terrorist organizations, and even have terrorist camps which they call "anti terrorist camps" where they have mock airplanes they teach their soldiers to take over. This is actually a class, and if they don't pass this class, saddam tests chem and bio weapons on them.

Second.. how is this NOT our war?? Someone was not paying attention on sept 11. Wake up please.. This is our war. We will take care of it now before our country ends up like israel. BTW it is happening.. so support the troops..

Turkey almost en enemy??? lol Where the hell do you get this?? Please do some research... they are NOT almost an enemy .. lol

V8killimports

01-16-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by mt.biker
Actually the reason why your nation was bombed was because in the 70's your CIA backed a war against russia with middle eastern allies that you trained, gave supplies and intel to and then when they beat russia you pulled out and stopped talking to them leaving them in worse condition then before you helpped them fight a war because you weren't willing to directly engage russia.

Bush is now just cleaning up what all your other prez have done. As for iraq, the CIA put him in power many years ago and now this position has gone to his head. Simply taking him out with a sniper is harder then you think because the country is so closed to the rest of the world and he has more then a few look alikes. Not to mention in the mid 60s (i believe) the US gov't decided they would no longer be in the hit business after trying to take out fidel and it went ary (or maybe it was someone else). These days they just bomb all the places they think he might be.

As for your gov'ts continued militrary actions, chris you should learn do deal with it. Your country will be at war with someone until you are no longer a super power (all countries fall in time). Your gov't plays military police with the world, you should be thankful that its not someone like china with their corrupt morals or how about put russia back in power. Now theres an idea, even more ****ed up. Chris honestly I think you have it to good and are spliting hairs. For you to go on living the life you do, your gov't has to keep flexing its military might.

My uncle was on the USS Enterprise at a dinner with the senior staff and they were joking around with why the Navy has become such a big part of any military engage meant. And its because in 2-3days the US armed forced can be in any country's backyard causing a shit storm. Just be thankful that you dont have to fight and that other men are out there doing the dirty work, and forget the details until it starts concerning you.

Holy ignorant batman... sorry but this is wrong. They commited an act of war on sept 11 because those people hate how the US occupies the holy land in saudi.. they also hate how the US is a rich nation and they live in shit. They blew up a buddist statue that was thousands of years old because to them it was blasphemous (sp). They deserve to die.. in feb I am on my way over there and I can't wait. I have a problems with the cowards way of "let's ignore them and hope they leave me alone". That's crap. If you think that please go live in a cave. That's not how it works, or how it will ever work. As for israel... they have no problem kicking everyone's asses without us...

V8killimports

01-16-2003, 11:23 AM

And as for our brilliant neighbor canada.. they have contsantly denied taliban presence in their country.. And within the past month it has been confirmed that taliban have been coming from canada. Thanks for sitting on your ass canada..

ChrisCantSkate

01-16-2003, 11:25 AM

iraq and the taliban are separate bad organizations, iraq is a waring nation, dont get me wrong there, but we cannot put our anger from spet, 11th on iraq just because we cant attack the taliban. i hope i didnt sound at all like u support then, but i think wars just kill people. i do not wana see sadaam in power any more than anyone else and he is an evil person. but i dont like bushes approach to the situation.

silver

01-16-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by V8killimports
Holy ignorant batman... sorry but this is wrong. They commited an act of war on sept 11 because those people hate how the US occupies the holy land in saudi.. they also hate how the US is a rich nation and they live in shit. They blew up a buddist statue that was thousands of years old because to them it was blasphemous (sp). They deserve to die.. in feb I am on my way over there and I can't wait. I have a problems with the cowards way of "let's ignore them and hope they leave me alone". That's crap. If you think that please go live in a cave. That's not how it works, or how it will ever work. As for israel... they have no problem kicking everyone's asses without us...

I believe his point is that there would be no al qaeda if we did not literally form it for them through our presence during the afghan-russian war. The guns shooting at our soldiers over there are the same weapons that we gave to them twenty years ago. And there is no taliban presence in canada, al qaeda is the name of the organization, the taliban is a government party that ruled afghanistan. So who is ignorant on that one?
Personally I feel that North Korea is a bigger problem at the moment, those morons are getting ready for war as well, and they hate everyone also. We know they have nuclear capabilities, hell they may even have the bomb. The problem with our country is that we have an oil tycoon as a president and an enemy who has the 2nd most oil reserves in the world, it makes sense. What better way to pull us out of a recession than to control 200 trillion dollars in oil? Chris, you're correct, Mt. Biker, you're correct, V8, you're correct about turkey but you have a skewed view of world politics and history, but I wish you luck when you are over, and hell...bag one for me.

Daviso27

01-16-2003, 12:15 PM

I love the US...My problem is that they try to bully other countries...Saudi Arabia holds a major portion of the petroluem reserves. The US is not gonna allow Saddam to govern this portion of the planet...this causes the Middle eastern countries to get upset when the US gets involved in their problems. I know its wrong to bomb your own people, but the US has its own problems here in the mainland (murders, scandals, drugs, etc.) Let us resolve our own problems and then we can help others. Thats like an alchoholic trying to help a cocaine addict...Take the 12-step approach on yourself before you preach to somone else.

Seriously our country was built on imigrants, and open borders, but they need to shut it down...Canada borders, close'm, Mexico borders close'm...Make it an act of terroism if you try to sneek into the country illegaly, make drug dealing and money laundering an act of terrorism. This would fix all of the WallStreet bullsh!t down and stop these bastards from selling crack to the babies. No more illegal aliens. You want to be in the US, get the correct paperwork, and ID's and your set. You want to recieve higher learnign in the US, same process...its okay to deny several hundred people student visas...sh!t Im sure all of us have been denied unemployment, jobs, acceptance in a College, etc., and we are citizens.

History has showed us, when we are at war, the economy goes up...right now our economy can't be any lower...So think why we are really going to war.

But what do I know? I'm studying Telecommunications...I can tell you the difference between a Router and a 5-port Hub,

Zybach

01-16-2003, 12:18 PM

War is good for the economy don't you know, it took America out of the great depression. But seriously when WW2 ended America was the biggest loan shark in the civilized world. It lent money to Germany at a high interest to pay its war debts to England and France, who inturn payed America the debt they accrued from American funds borrowed during the war. All this is with interest of course. So you see its really a big cycle where everyone's happy.
When the war is over, when we're done blowing up Iraq, we'll have to "help" them rebuild. Of course there will be repayments for the "help" since nothing is free in the civilized world. Somewhere down the road the Iraqi people will have to repay the heroic Americans who in their democratic spirit was brave enough to oppose one of the most feared leader in the Middle East, or some pro-American BS like that, but of course the payment might not necessarily mean money, it can come in the form of political alliance, like Canada, or perhaps a puppet leader who'll drop his pants when W. says "shit!" But don't worry, money spent on war is money well spent.

Zybach

01-16-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Daviso27
I love the US...My problem is that they try to bully other countries.

Weak countries denouce Americans for their "bullying" because they don't have the power to do so. If other countries get as advanced as America they will do the same, perhaps they'll be even more ruthless.

Don't sit in the comfort in the blanket of protection the government provides, and question how it provides it.

mt.biker

01-16-2003, 02:11 PM

Thank you, i knew i wasn't totally off base there silver.

America doesn't bully but i do think they flex their might all over the world. Maybe we should stop questioning if they should goto war and wonder if we trust the judgement of the person in power. If you dont trust them to do the right thing then they will never be able to live up to your standards. I on the other hand trust your prez do carry out his responsibilities in a fashion that maintains the honor and glory of your great nation, and hell i'm not even american and he would be the one i would have voted for.

Granted the man has a bent view towards oil, but your american economoy is oil driven. If you want him to stop chasing after oil expect your standard of living to drop and your cost of living to increase. Everyone knows what higher gas prices do to EVERYTHING we buy. Maybe if there weren't as many SUV's and "light trucks" on the road you wouldn't be so depended on oil and you could fix the more important problems instead of going for the ones that involve oil.

when you think about it, everyday millions barrels of Iraqi oil are bought to supply your country with the means to do business. And you wonder who he is able to finance all these things and why he isn't quick to change his ways. The man hasn't felt much pain on account of his actions. The reality is ownz you until you take control of his country. If he stops selling oil, your nation will go crazy over the cost of oil, if he keeps selling it to you, you ***** because he's doing things with the money you gave him that you would rather he didn't. Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

Let me remind you something else, you think your gas prices are bad, you think wow the economy couldn't get much worse. Those are just comments of someone who doesn't understand what is going on in the rest of the world. In eruope you pay $1/L (not a gallon) for gas, and guess what they still are able to do business. You think your economy is bad, for years you've had an amazing employment rate, one of the best in the world and now your up 3-4% (i dont know the real % so forgive me) and your bitching. Give it a rest, you can't always be on the upside and quite your bitching you have it great just enjoy it while you can.

Just the $2.52 of an ignorate Canadian, forgive me if it strikes acord with you and rings of truth in anyway I dont mean it to *massive sarcasim*

V8killimports

01-16-2003, 04:43 PM

Yes I realize that taliban was the presence in afghanistan (100% al qaeda ), and that al qaeda is worldwide from southeast asia to canada. I just generalize it sometimes and call them taliban.

I am surprised that democrats have made it this far. Their philosophy is take care of drugs, homeless, etc, THEN help the world? That is ludicrous. That will always exist, so saying that is saying screw the rest of the world. How about we get a great democrat like clinton back in the White House. I was counting down the days until he got booted. Vote another democrat in and he'll probably want to whiddle the military down and pay us 1/2 of what we get now.

Any I think how the tree hugging hippies always blame this on oil. Blah Blah Blah oil... grow up. Sure that is always a small part of the reason.. US interests... Ever heard of nuclear and weapons proliferation?? We don't want a bastard like saddam selling weapons to al qaeda or any other idiot who might want them.

I really fear the day a democrat gets back in the white house.

Daviso27

01-16-2003, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Zybach
Weak countries denouce Americans for their "bullying" because they don't have the power to do so. If other countries get as advanced as America they will do the same, perhaps they'll be even more ruthless.

Don't sit in the comfort in the blanket of protection the government provides, and question how it provides it.

I understand that, but it is still bullying...In the schoolyard, the bully controlled sh!t...until a scrawny little nerd stuck up for the other nerds and wupped the bully's ass...

And as for your comment about a government protection blanket...Hell, I've been ready for Armagedon since 1999, niether Dubya, nor The Gub'ment can protect us from the wrath of GOD.

Wren57

01-16-2003, 06:22 PM

Simply put: democrats treat the symptoms, republicans cure the problem. And as for not finding anything in Iraq, well, they found some chemical warheads today...:eek:

Racing Rice

01-16-2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by highlander
Simply put: democrats treat the symptoms, republicans cure the problem. And as for not finding anything in Iraq, well, they found some chemical warheads today...:eek:

:yes: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/16/sproject.irq.wrap/index.html

I think these bastards have more nukes then you think they do. They probably have them hidden underground somewhere and only they know where they are..

Thats my .02 on that.:o

Ty's Si

01-16-2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Racing Rice
:yes: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/16/sproject.irq.wrap/index.html

I think these bastards have more nukes then you think they do. They probably have them hidden underground somewhere and only they know where they are..

Thats my .02 on that.:o

They probably have them hidden in inconspicuous vehicles that travel around the country looking like any other vehicle on the road (or dirt?). Mobile chemical weapons labs is where it's at. The UN will have a difficult time trying to find them all.

silver

01-16-2003, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by highlander
Simply put: democrats treat the symptoms, republicans cure the problem. And as for not finding anything in Iraq, well, they found some chemical warheads today...:eek:

i think you have it wrong. history shows that republicans cause the problems and democrats fix it.
the depression-->the new deal
republican in power-->trying to oust Castro-->cuban missile-->kennedy saves the world
reagan and bush economy and spending and deficit-->clinton revival of economy
bush #2 trys to fight the world and spend every dime doing it----> Hilary Clinton takes office and ***** slaps bush#2 just like her husband did with bush#1

how bout that dancing banana?
:banana:

Wren57

01-16-2003, 07:54 PM

Thats because democrats wallow in self-pity worrying about every little detail of social reform at home, blinding the population to the real, larger problems of the world. As for the new deal? That was a DISASTER when it started, then WW2 came along and production was pushed up and economy started moving... the Cuban Missle Crisis wasn't caused by a republican, it was caused by the Cold War, and Russia realizing it could use Cuba to F*** with the US... As for reagan destroying the economy, do you have any idea what the misery index is, and what it was before reagan was elected? Misery index is unemployment+rate of inflation... it was running 20-25% before Reagan... the stock market grew more than 70% during his tenure in office. Sure he ran a deficit, but he had to keep the economy moving foward instead of stagnating, which it was doing before he came into office.

V8killimports

01-16-2003, 09:11 PM

ChrisCantSkate

01-16-2003, 09:50 PM

bush is too much an oil giant... thats his main consern, yet he floods us with propaganda about how driving SUVS supports terrorism. we havnt had a good president in a while, clinton at least kept us at peace. bush wants to control the mid east for its oil... at least thats what i think his underlying plan is. *EDIT* i am not saying clinton was good... dont try to twist this on me. i am a registered rebublican... although since bush took office i am doubting myself

Wren57

01-16-2003, 09:54 PM

Bush is just a realist- he realizes without oil this country will dry up and wither... he wants us to NOT drive SUVs to be more prepared in case we have an oil shortage... Clinton didnt keep peace, he just kept world events tucked away under the mattress... literally...

ChrisCantSkate

01-16-2003, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by highlander
Bush is just a realist- he realizes without oil this country will dry up and wither... he wants us to NOT drive SUVs to be more prepared in case we have an oil shortage... Clinton didnt keep peace, he just kept world events tucked away under the mattress... literally...
ok... without mid east oil we will have to tap into the HUGE texan and alaskan oil mines... we have ALOT more oil there than we are told... my grandfather had something to do with them.. and was telling me about how much we really have on our own soil. but the truth is, it will cost more because american workers cost more than mid east workers. there will be no oil shortage, sure there might be 75% of the world oil there, but we will burn the world down before they are bone dry. we dont like tapping our resources too much because then we'd grow too much and not get any money out into the world. we have oil... we just want other peoples

Wren57

01-16-2003, 10:06 PM

I didn't say we didn't have plenty of oil, I know we do. But as you said, it costs more, would cost american economy more, etc. We don't need the middle east for oil, but we sure do enjoy having them... if people didnt drive SUVs, then demand for oil would be lower, so IF we had to tap our reserves we wouldn't have to drill as much and it wouldnt do as much damage to the economy...

mt.biker

01-16-2003, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
ok... without mid east oil we will have to tap into the HUGE texan and alaskan oil mines... we have ALOT more oil there than we are told... my grandfather had something to do with them.. and was telling me about how much we really have on our own soil. but the truth is, it will cost more because american workers cost more than mid east workers. there will be no oil shortage, sure there might be 75% of the world oil there, but we will burn the world down before they are bone dry. we dont like tapping our resources too much because then we'd grow too much and not get any money out into the world. we have oil... we just want other peoples

the longer you keep your oil untouched the better, it ensures secruity

ChrisCantSkate

01-16-2003, 10:09 PM

i think its funny whenever we get into these arguments we start on left and right wing opionions, but by the end we start seeing a tad more eye to eye.... i know im more liberal than most, but thats me, you may like a lying president(:bandit: ) but i'd rather know the facts of how im gonna get screwed over

Wren57

01-16-2003, 10:11 PM

What do you think he is lying about?

GT40FIED

01-17-2003, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
i just read we are gonna be running a 300 billion dollar budject deficet BEFORE going to war, and will be larger if we do (source: http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0700&id=03011518203813419 ) then bush declines affermative action (source: http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0700&id=03011518231713429 ) and we're giving 30billion to africa, and selling our military helicopters to turkey(almost an enemy) in hope of persuading them to fight iraq (source: http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0700&id=03011519175613714 ) im sorry, WTF is bush doing? trying to run us into the ground? we should impeach him

Alright man...I'm by no means a Democrat and I despise that bumpkin podunk retard of a president we have some of that stuff is relevant. As far as a war goes...what crap. We haven't declared war on anyone...including the countries we've bombed already. Anybody here wanna fight a war against a country that has no chance of directly doing America any harm? And as far as indirect harm...does anyone think leveling Iraq will stop those threats? Bush is just pissed that Saddam tried to kill his dad and he wants the pleasure of finishing a job his dad couldn't. So pay no attention to the weapons of mass distraction.

As far as affirmative action...good riddance. It's called survival of the fittest and the best man for the job. If you can't cut it, you don't deserve it solely because your skin is darker than beige on the color wheel. What if (like in American History X) you were a fireman and two minorities were hired in place of two more compitent white guys simply because of affirmative action? Would you want them watching your back knowing they weren't the most qualified? Or how'd you like to not get into the college you want to go to because a minority kid with worse grades got in solely based on his skin color? That decision in question I believe, however, was limited to one school's admissions policies, wasn't it? That's a shame since, if all men are truely created equal, then why do you get preferential treatment just because you're black or mexican or whatever? Affirmative action can do little help to blacks (or mexicans, etc.) and, in fact, serves no purpose but to promote racial tensions and let the government hand another crutch to the black community (or mexican or whatever) that they don't need. If I were on the receiving end of affirmative action, I'd be offended that someone would think I needed a handout or that I needed an unfair advantage simply based on the color of my skin. Everyone wants to live in a colorblind society (well almost everyone) but how can you if you stack the cards in one races favor? Affirmative action should never have come about and I'll dance on it's grave when it's gone.

As far as giving money to Africa....Africa's a big place. I dunno where they're sending money to, but it all goes back to survival of the fittest. Know why AIDS is so huge in Africa? I part because the people lack proper education and protection (condoms), but also in part because those dumbasses actually listen to the f*cking pope when he says that using birth control is basically a sin. So does that mean all the intelligent, cautious people who wanna have sex are going to hell? I'm in no means in favor of people needlessly dying, but why are we always the ones bailing them out? Why not Canada or China or something? Or how bout the french? Those ****ers haven't done anything for anyone.

Selling choppers to Turkey...what's new there? We always sell countries weapons in hopes that they'll do our bidding which will invariably come around to bite us in the ass when they turn those weapons against us. How long have you lived here man? Key example: Afghanistan. We sold them stingers and guns during the Soviet invasion and now they hate us so who do they turn those missles on? If you guessed us then you get a cookie. Sure, it's wrong but the American government can't be wrong and you'd be a fool and a communist to say otherwise. Anyone remember what happened during the Bay of Pigs? We have the CIA train a bunch of Cuban exiles and defectors and attempt to stage a revolution in Cuba to overthrow Castro. But, as Kennedy so conveniently forgot, Castro had come to power through a revolution assited by Che Guevara. Wow...what genius startegists we have here (or, if you're George Bush, it's "strategery").

So there you have it. We live in a retarded country that will always make the wrong decisions at the wrong time. You have to learn to expect it or leave. Either way I'll be happy.

silver

01-17-2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by highlander
Thats because democrats wallow in self-pity worrying about every little detail of social reform at home, blinding the population to the real, larger problems of the world. As for the new deal? That was a DISASTER when it started, then WW2 came along and production was pushed up and economy started moving... the Cuban Missle Crisis wasn't caused by a republican, it was caused by the Cold War, and Russia realizing it could use Cuba to F*** with the US... As for reagan destroying the economy, do you have any idea what the misery index is, and what it was before reagan was elected? Misery index is unemployment+rate of inflation... it was running 20-25% before Reagan... the stock market grew more than 70% during his tenure in office. Sure he ran a deficit, but he had to keep the economy moving foward instead of stagnating, which it was doing before he came into office.

Many advocates argue that Reagan "proved that when you reduce taxes, you spur the economy...." Yet that supply-side credo is simplistic. Mainstream economists can show you in detail why Reagan's 1981 tax cuts had little or no effect on the recovery of 1983-89. That recovery reflected lucky developments that had nothing to do with tax cuts.

For one thing, strong recoveries normally follow severe recessions. Reagan happened to come into office during a bad recession; naturally, it ended. His timing was great, not his tax policy. For another thing, he lucked out with respect to oil prices. They skyrocketed in the 1970s, thanks to the OPEC cartel, and again in the early 1980s, thanks to Iraq attacking Iran. Few stresses hurt the economy like a spike in oil prices, and few things help like oil prices coming back to earth, as they did in Reagan's presidency - but not because of anything he did. Finally, Reagan lucked out with respect to Fed policies. A lot of the early-80s slowdown was caused by the double-digit interest rates that Fed Chairman Paul Volcker used to whip runaway inflation. But by the mid-80s the Fed had started to lower interest rates again. That made it easier for businesses to borrow, invest and create jobs.

So what did the tax cut contribute to the recovery? Not much. How do we know? Because if the Reagan recovery had been caused by a true supply-side surge of productivity, we would have seen productivity rates increase in the 1980s. They didn't.

How about people's claim that Reagan's tax cut actually "increased tax revenues"? Again, it doesn't hold up. A close look shows that what boosted Federal tax revenues during the 80's was not individual income taxes but payroll taxes - whose 4% average revenue growth resulted from a tax hike, the Social Security Reform Act of 1983. Besides, corporate tax revenues plummeted after Reagan's tax cut, and surged only after the 1986 tax-reform law raised corporate taxes again. Try explaining that with supply-side theory.

If you still believe the theory, remember what supply-siders predicted in 1993, when Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy by 40%. Newt Gingrich told us the tax increase was sure to bring on a severe recession. The Wall Street Journal told us the budget deficit would go through the ceiling. Forbes told us to take our money out of the stock market, because it was headed for a deadly crash.

The predictions couldn't have been more wrong, of course - but if supply-side economics were true, all these disasters are exactly what should have happened. See why mainstream economists consider supply-side theory a joke?

The real legacy of Reaganomics was a near-tripling of the budget deficit. Cleveland tries to pin the blame on Congress, but Congress added only 10% to Reagan's own budget proposals.

So do not tell me that he kept the market moving, it moved by itself, he just spent all the money.

As for the new deal do another history check, check the timeline and the economy between the years of 1929 and 1940.

I am not your average 21 year old. I am currently working on my masters for english literature, I have a minor in history and I am almost done with my bachelor of economics. I am not biased, I merely spout history.

Mushroom

01-17-2003, 12:48 PM

As I understand it, the economist's objection to the Bush administration's tax plan is not the money it spends on tax cuts, etc over the next 2 years. When you're in a recession, you spend money to support the economy. The problem is uses the economy now as an excuse to make changes to the tax law until 2010 or 2011 - when someone else will take the blame.

Changing the tax structure for a year makes a little bit of sense. Using that to push for a we-love-rich-white-men policy at the expense of the economic strength of the country in the future is dirty.

I've said it before. Think about where you want the world to be in 100 years, after you're dead and gone. When I think about it that way, I feel pretty liberal.

Zybach

01-19-2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Daviso27
I understand that, but it is still bullying...In the schoolyard, the bully controlled sh!t...until a scrawny little nerd stuck up for the other nerds and wupped the bully's ass...

And as for your comment about a government protection blanket...Hell, I've been ready for Armagedon since 1999, niether Dubya, nor The Gub'ment can protect us from the wrath of GOD.

Reply to first comment. Lest you forget. America is surrounded by water, Canada and Mexico. How will the "little nerds" stick up for each other? Swim across the Atlantic? As long as America makes sure other countries don't have nukes and stay out of Russia and China's way it can pretty much do what ever it wants. Because after all might makes right.

Reply to the second comment. I believe you have strayed from a politcal debate to a religious debate, one which I don't care to take up.