Question on. . . New Motor vs. Forced Induction

[2000 V-TEC]

I would like some input on what people would recommend about me putting a Jackson Racing Supercharger on my D16 or buying a new engine.

Which would be cheaper and have better results?

Right now I am leaning towards the Supercharger.

[oc civic]

i have a juiced single cam.. i liek it... BUT im getting a swap very soon... thats my answer to your question...

actualy i will make it SLIGHTLY clearer

a) supercharge current motor.. you hit tunnign wall and have taxed otu the motor... to obtain "X" power

b) swap..... obtaining power "X" or close to it... adn this is JUST a begining... there is NO "tuning wall"

[2000 V-TEC]

i dont get it? what did all that mean?

[pdiggitydogg]

hes saying by SC the d16 youre gonna hit the "tuning barrier" where youre not gonna get any more hp. If you swap youre gonna get roughly the same amount of hp out of the swapped engine as if you were to sc the d16 (equal amount of hp) but if you do a swap you could always tune the swapped engine and create more hp later if you decide.

A super charger is also a dead end FI machine where you cannot increase the boost somewhere down the road, where as with a turbo you can very easily (sometimes you will have to strengthen the engine internals to handle that increase in boost and power but my point is a turbo is...expandable :yes:)

I say do the swap but it also depends on what you want this car to do. I am having a similar problem too. Do I turbo my ex or swap it for a b16a2...I am now leaning on the turbo'd ex just because its faster and I can always upgrade to better internals slowly and a piece at a time where if I swapped I have to shell out the $2k plus shipping all at once...and that is not very economical in my scenario.

well now that I rambled...I say again, perhaps a swap is better hp wise but it may not be as economical...and is pretty damn extreme.

[oc civic]

after supercharging a d16 theres not too much mor eyou can do.... just swap to a b16/or b18 and you can go MUCH further....

[2000 V-TEC]

oooh oooh oooooh....ok thanks i deifnetly get it now...one question though....which would be the better value for what u get...i know if i just turbo'd it i could always upgrade....but if i swap'ed over the turbo would that be better hp for price or no?

[pdiggitydogg]

a dohc is always gonna be faster than a sohc (if both have the same mods) so for the price yes a swap may be "better horsepower for you dollar"

[2000 V-TEC]

am i going to have to swap everything ive done to my d16 then? if i swap to a dohc? i mean i have the intake, header, exhaust, pulleys, fuel rail, ignition, plugs, wires, fuel pump, fuel pressure reg, cam, cam gear......all of that has to go? or can i salvage some?

[pdiggitydogg]

exhaust can stay, maybe a bit modified from your shop
intake i question
header - gone
pulleys - if its crank then gone otherwise they can stay
rail - gone
ignition - ?
wires - gone
fuel pump - stay...i think
pressure regulator - ?
cam gear - gone

[Kyle]

a=new motor
b=old motor
c=supercharger
and p=power obtained
so...a=p
and b+c=p
so a=b+c
getting the new motor will probably be about the same as supercharging your old motor...
lol, that was fun.

[2000 V-TEC]

WOW...what about if i get a turbo or SC?

[pdiggitydogg]

Originally posted by Kyle
a=new motor
b=old motor
c=supercharger
and p=power obtained
so...a=p
and b+c=p
so a=b+c

fun w/ algebra :rolleyes:

[2000 V-TEC]

WHAT??????

[Kyle]

you could probably just sell the stuff from your old motor on ebay or something...or find someone in your town that needs some stuff...and use that money to go towards your new motor...
And after a while...you can turbo/supercharge the new motor...and it'll be WAAAY more fun than a cheapo sohc POS

[pdiggitydogg]

like i said, the sc is pretty dead end but the turbo is upgradable and you can keep everything that you already have, minus the header because youd replace it with the turbo manifold. a standard greddy kit runs 5.5psi and you could roughly think of 1psi as what maybe 7hp...im not exactly sure...obviously... So heres your d16 maybe pushing 130 tops adding the turbo would give you somewhere around 160 hp at the base 5.5psi but this psi is easily increased so you could get more and more hp the higher you run the boost. but the greddy kit is only good to 10 psi where other kits can give you almost 100hp more (fmax)...which is crazy to me on a sohc..I really dont believe it until i see it

[2000 V-TEC]

dont down the SOHC tho....those are still some sick motors...they can still get up there with some nasty HP

[Kyle]

and yeah...i love algebra...lol
i wouldn't mind teaching it one day

[oc civic]

just so everyone knows you CAN increase boost on a supercharger...

[2000 V-TEC]

and u can get after coolers for SC's and new pulleys and all that happy horse Sh*t

[oc civic]

Originally posted by 2000 V-TEC
and u can get after coolers for SC's and new pulleys and all that happy horse Sh*t

yes thats my point.. everyone is talkign about hwo they suck.. they really dont suck at all.. but i personaly would MUCH rather have a swap..

[2000 V-TEC]

i also think SC's are better than turbos....its's constant power...turbo kicks in at certain rpms and whereever u set it

[pdiggitydogg]

yes you can increase power in a sc but its very minimal for the extra price. they are more reliable also and there is no lag as w/ turbos. They are very good hp increasers, dont get me wrong, I thought for a long time on getting one

[2000 V-TEC]

i read with a stage 2 turbo from apexi i would get 225 hp at wheels.....i also read with a stage 1 sc from jackson racing i would get around 290-300 hp at wheels....those statistics are both with stock set ups and 3 inch exhaust

[pdiggitydogg]

Originally posted by 2000 V-TEC
i also read with a stage 1 sc from jackson racing i would get around 290-300 hp at wheels....those statistics are both with stock set ups and 3 inch exhaust

I really really do not believe that on either sohc or dohc civic

[2000 V-TEC]

thats what i've read

[pdiggitydogg]

the jr sc adds (and i quote from jr themselves) "up to a 40% increase in power" thats no where near 300hp on a civic...120hpx40%increase=168hp...at the flywheel not the wheels

even if you get the boost upgrade kit thats only an additional 20% max = 190 and that is still flywheel

Both of these are using the maximum % increase, that means you more than likely will not get a 60% increase in total power

[oc civic]

turbo SHOULD be misleading... the TURBO numbers SHOULD be higher.. due to the PEAKY nature of the power... superchargers are often less potent.. but produce power all the way across the board...

[2000 V-TEC]

thanks for the info...ill have to find out where i read that from and let u know cuz im pretty sure i read that...but those numbers sound more realistic

[pdiggitydogg]

ok I found this on saturday just wasting time during nfl playoff 1/2 time...you might want to read it...it scared me right out of SC my civic...:paranoid:
http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/marc-jrsc-after.html